Joe Schmid Converted And Everyone Lost Their Minds

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¶6>> The silence. The dark. The king. Where the last fing under my face Yeah. HEAT.

¶7What's up? >> What's good with you? Uh, what's going on? >> Okay. You said I have to have energy for you today, man.

¶8So >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> I'm sick. So So Tim's going to carry the energy today. Just you.

¶9You guys. >> What's good? What's good? A little beer grab. >> Well, the um Matt actually, you know what?

¶10Here, Matt said it best. I filled my pool with atheist tears this week. You guys are >> Yeah, man. There's a lot to talk about here. I just figured it'd be good to kind of get on a stream, hang out with you guys.

¶11I don't really have too much like anything prepped really. Um, I was kind of listening through some atheist videos today talking about this and I just figured it'd be kind of good to talk about this. Um, because there's just a lot going on. Um, >> uh, we I mean Tim, you I don't know if you looked through the comments um, when Joe like what was your experience, I guess, watching what was happening with the atheist community once Joe made the announcement? Dude, I've been I've been saving videos on my Instagram left and right, bro.

¶12Literally, if you go on Tik Tok and Instagram is all you see. Every other video is someone being like, "This is my take on what's happened." And everyone listen, everyone's an expert sociologist and psychologist somehow. >> Yep. >> They they got their PhD yesterday. They all happen to get their PhDs yesterday, right?

¶13So, it's all been the same stuff. We'll get into it, but yeah, I mean, I'm not impressed, nor am I surprised. >> Yeah. So, I mean, um, I didn't want to make a slideshow manually, so I asked Canva AI to make this, so it's gonna look like it's going to look really. >> This is awesome.

¶14No, no, no. I'm so excited, bro. I love the way you said it like a boomer, bro. You're like, I I made this. What is it?

¶15It's AI. >> Yeah, I used AI to make I hate, dude. I hate it. I hated it. >> This is awesome.

¶16This is what we want from you, bro. >> This is what we want. So, um, this is great. >> So, I mean, like here, like this was like one of the first comments, like sets of comments that I saw basically once Tim I mean once Joe made this video public. Oh, here we go.

¶17We got a special guest, too, by the way. >> Hey, >> Johnny boy. >> What? >> See, now we Man, you know what, man? John, I would do so many things, but I'm not gonna say what I >> Oh my goodness.

¶18So, it's like Um, I don't know if >> it's the hatred. We're all wearing hats today. >> Yeah, we are, man. >> Let's go. >> So, it's like these are some comments that you just see on Joe's video.

¶19Like, I was seriously waiting for you to go. Yeah, it's a joke because your reasoning is wild here. Like, it like this is just a showcase. And you guys, there's so many of these. It's a lot of people either it all boils down to people thinking Joe is joking, which we're going to get into this a little that even more.

¶20People thinking he's having a manic episode, like he's literally going crazy. People thinking that he came to the conclusions too quickly. Um thinking he's being epistemically responsible, that he's always been stupid, so to speak. Um that it comes down to his psychology. that, oh, this is just like, you know, what he grew up in and he just got lonely and wanted to get back to things that felt comfortable.

¶21Like every other possible thing under the sun other than Joe looked at the data took his time to reason and came to a conclusion that this agrees. >> You know what I like about this? You know, you know what? I'm just going to say, you know what I like about this? I like the fact that everyone's all of a sudden an objective basian when it comes to evidence, but all the other times they're subjective.

¶22Okay. So, it's fine when, hey, it just doesn't convince me. I'm not >> Go. Keep keep going, King, cuz this is >> And we can't question that. We We can't say, "Yeah, but what does the data support?" Well, I'm not convinced.

¶23Okay. So, we're not allowed to touch that. But when an agnostic philosopher becomes a Christian, >> can we all sudden it's like this doesn't what what what what >> can we recognize the fact that th is drinking a 2 liter of Canada dry right now? Like >> what is going on with that? >> I'm sick.

¶24It's zero sugar. >> All right, >> you paused me for that. That's crazy. >> I did. Yeah, that was more important.

¶25So anyway, okay. And then all of a sudden, right, oh no, this objectively is not the support relation >> between the data and this all of a sudden they can say that when we've been literally saying that that is the discussion that we want to have for for I don't even know how long. >> That's such a good point. My gosh, dude. No, seriously.

¶26like the like, >> "Hey bro, I'm sorry. I'm talk to you again. The other day you saw the Britt Hartley video. If you're watching this, hop on the call." Okay. You saw the Brit Heartley video.

¶27She said, "Oh, yeah. This is another uh uh uh uh iteration of someone returning to their childhood religion. Of course, he's Catholic because that's what he was when he was a kid." It's like, okay, so we don't have to we don't have to look at anything and any of his reasons. Okay, okay, we just pat him on his head. A, you return to your childhood religion.

¶28This is all this is. So, we don't have to care about the data. I'm over it. >> I I'm a prophet. I called it.

¶29I said that's what people are going to say. Chad, see me say it. I got to record it. I said, "This is what people are going to say." >> I haven't even watched any of the responses yet. Alhamdulillah John is a >> I'm running for I'm running for the second Muhammad right now.

¶30You see? >> You see? >> No. Honestly, no. Now, now that you said that, Tim, this is actually even more interesting to me because it's like, >> yeah, >> what just a month ago?

¶31Just a month ago, >> we we the the skeptical YouTubers started coming at me for the my whole basian case for theism and the resurrection. And it's like, doesn't Dan doesn't know any of these things about probability and blah blah blah, and all this stuff is subjective, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Meanwhile, then this happens and now all of a sudden all these internet skeptics are like the ideal observers that >> Yes. >> Yes. No properly informed no properly functioning and sufficiently informed reasoner would be led to conclude this based on the data.

¶32It's like okay. So like you I'm not even mad that they're saying it. I'm mad about the double standard. >> Yeah. Well, it's not a double standard because it's it's not a double standard because Tim, >> you don't understand.

¶33>> You just have to be stupid to believe these things. There's a byitional relationship between being stupid and being a Christian. >> John, what is the byitional? >> Uh, that's what uh Than was before he became a Christian. >> No, no, that's transconditional.

¶34That was a funny one. >> I mean, look, there's a bunch of these pictures, man. Like, disappointing to say the least. New channel name Majesty of Okay, this one's funny. No good reason.

¶35Yeah. Yeah. This one, dude. I love this one. of 1995.

¶36>> You should really Hindu. Have you heard of the Hindu milk miracle of 1995? You should be a Hindu. >> You guys are Hindus. So, it's like, okay, like one, this is a funny one, but two, this just goes to show the fact that as soon as they realized that Joe is like serious, right?

¶37People in this camp of the atheists that are trying to ridicule Joe, they're going they're not like they they've stopped listening to anything, anything Joe is saying, any of the evidence that Joe is giving. Right? And this happens anytime we even talk about miracles. It's not just Joe. I whenever I've talked about miracles, this is what happens.

¶38Tim, you've seen it happen. John, I don't know if you talk about miracles with your streams or anything like that, but like >> No, really not. But is planning on it? It's in the future. >> Yes.

¶39I'm making a compendium for you. But like this this is one of the things that happens. It's like, "Oh, well, if you thinking miracles are real, like what about this Hindu milk miracle?" And that response in of itself just tells you that they did not listen to a single thing about how Joe is arguing about this and nor the fact that you know obviously that he's putting out he said a 25 hour video like video series now on the topic. It the Hindu milk. >> Yeah.

¶40The 25 hour video series is is just crazy. It's like and and I just want to say this real fast. Like again, if we're going to hold these people accountable to rational principles, it like if I were sitting in their shoes right now, I remember literally when Ted Poston, dude, Ted, bro, >> deconveron converted. Okay, John, if you don't know Ted, he was a very rigorous and sophisticated analytic philosopher that was a Christian. did arguments for God, all this stuff like that.

¶41And he all of a sudden one day became an atheist. >> Oh, I think I did. >> Do you know how do you know how much time I spent? I just prayed for him. I was like, "Dude, yeah." I'm like, "Listen, with that dude's amount of knowledge and understanding, etc.

¶42and so forth like my priors for he's just like one day said, "Ah, I'm just going to be unserious." Like super low. So Joe before this, right, this is the aura Joe had before this. This agnostic, super rigorous, super unbiased looking at the strength of the arguments for both sides dude, right? Not to mention he has like 40 or something published papers before he was ever even close to being a PhD. Like interacting with all these people, right?

¶43Obviously ahead of his class. Um, and everyone's like, "Yeah, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah." And he's like, "Hey guys, listen. like I looked at this evidence and I'm really convinced by this. Everyone's reaction should have been, you know what, I know Joe to be a thoughtful guy.

¶44I'm a hear. >> No, not at all. >> No, no. I look the I I do I do want to give credit where credit's due. There is an atheist uh creator that and I'll bring him up a little bit later, but I was like one very surprised by how level-headed he was.

¶45>> Mhm. and and I really want to give credit where credit's due with with him and you guys will see that in a little bit. Um, >> go ahead. >> It's funny. It's funny with the atheist because they always accuse Christians of like um that we reason with the conclusion already there.

¶46So we're like, "Oh yeah, God exists." So everything we look at has to point towards God. But then for some reason when it's the other way around, it's like a Christian goes through the data or sorry atheist goes through the agnostic goes through the data and concludes that yeah, God is real. They start with the preconceived notion that God doesn't exist and and then just go then just kind of throws away all their evidence. So it's almost like they're, you know, uh the the pot calling the kettle black. They're doing the exact same thing.

¶47They start with the conclusion, then look at the evidence, then reason from there. >> Yeah. Well, that that's everyone's response to miracles. And I was actually going to give you your flowers here, which is you've noticed this even from what would otherwise be thoughtful people. I mean, miracles are just handwaved away all the time.

¶48No, nobody actually I don't know what it is about miracles, >> but no one actually takes the time to entertain them on the same level as philosophical arguments. >> They just have this philosophical argument at the end of the day. >> Well, and and that's even that's even the worst problem, right? Which is they'll go through with a fine tooth comb arguments for God. Um they'll go through uh the data concerning the gospels, etc.

¶49and so forth. But the moment that the subject changes the miracles, right, everyone has this almost default incredulous response to it. Um, and it's just very strange to me. And so I feel like not enough vindicatory work has been done for actually giving it a rational shot. That's what you're doing, right?

¶50That's again me giving your flowers there. That's what people need to be doing. But it was the fact that Joe brought up like, okay, if Joe would have said, I'm convinced that the bare theism is true. What do you think the reaction would be? >> It wouldn't have been nearly as crazy, >> right?

¶51But he said miracles. What if he said Islam >> then? Well, I mean like look, the internet outrage would have been justified then because you do have to really be stupid. >> But but do you think do you think the woke people would have been like, "Oh yeah, we support him on his journey in Islam." Do you think or do you think they would have come at him just as much? >> So that's a good question.

¶52>> I'm I'm not sure. Um I think I think they probably I I can't say right. There'll probably be equal parts of people in that camp that felt that way but wouldn't articulate it publicly because they need to virtue signal. And then there's the people that are just kind of authentic that are more like liberalleaning that probably would have said something. >> Does that make sense?

¶53>> Yeah. Can we also talk about like your bicep is big as my head? >> Like what's going on with that? >> Someone did ask. We're all going to take our shirts off by the way.

¶54Someone someone did ask that. >> Say what? >> Someone did ask if we're all going to take our shirts off in this stream at some point. I'm just letting you know that someone's running. >> It's not happening.

¶55>> I'll do it if does it? >> I'll do if John does it. So, it'll be kind of like a transitive property. >> Look, look, I've already told people you can see that if you find my bodybuilding show in next year when I do it. Um, I was almost going to say if somebody donates enough money, I do it.

¶56And I was like, no, that's no. This is a ministry. We're not we're not doing that. Um, there is a comment I want to address really quickly because this is going to be this is going to be coming um a lot now because I've been I I have I actually have >> You've been getting this you've been getting the smoke, too, on this. >> Oh, I know.

¶57Well, I mean, like, yeah, but now it's more so because people know that I defend a lot of the Catholic vindicatory miracles. Um, >> he's a Catholic. You see, we knew all along. >> And so, here here's the thing. I have I have a commitment be because I'm with Inspiring Philosophy, I have a commitment that I'm not going to share my denomination.

¶58And so you guys are free to make inferences all you want about my denomination based on the fact that I'm defending those miracles, but I'm not going to confirm or deny what my denomination is. >> Only a Protestant would hide his denom to be honest. That comment, that's the logical inference. You must be a Protestant cuz you're only making this so much worse right now. Nothing better.

¶59No, I I I I I do like I do really want to be serious ser serious here for a second because >> I want people to come to Christ. >> There is a particular set of doctrines and dogmas and stuff like that that I would prefer people come to because I think that is what the truth is. Um, however, my the ministry work that we do here at Inspiring Philosophy is to bring people into mere Christianity. And from there, if people want to get pointed to a church that I think is true or anything like that, maybe we can talk privately or something. But nonetheless, I I I I want to be serious here about this for a second because I do think miracles are some of the are strong are some of if not the strongest evidences for Christianity.

¶60And it's very frustrating to be in a position where I can present those arguments um where I can't present those arguments freely without having to deal with people starting a denomination war over it. if that makes sense. You feel me, guys? Oh, yeah. >> Yeah.

¶61>> Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Um, let's do some super chats real quick and then we'll get back into some of the comments and stuff. Happy poop. Thank you for the shackles, Randy. Um, are miracles with no religious context and somewhat evidence against the idea that there is a God who does these miracles?

¶62For example, imagine a cup just floating around with no context at all. So, a few answers. Um, a few things. One is going to be miracles with no religious context. I'm gonna say that you have a very difficult time proving that there is no religious context.

¶63So, for example, um, I'm sick right now and people know that. And let's just say like you you you saw me you saw like some Dragon Ball Z key energy floating around me and there like I started turn like yellow energies all across me and then I'm like guys I feel better. Right. Nobody prayed for me at least explicitly here between Tim and John. But that doesn't stop us from knowing whether or not anybody that's viewing the stream right now did right.

¶64So it's really hard to actually ascertain a lack of religious context. Um so there the the places where prayer is not explicit those events um or where there's no explicit religious context. I would say those instances are underdeterminate. Now that being said show me those instances as well like the floating cup one stuff like that. Um there are a few instances there are a few like for instance uh what I cases where a miraculous healing is recorded in a medical journal for like a case report but the fact that they were prayed for was taken out um because they're more interested in actually putting in like the some sort of biological mechanism or something like that.

¶65Um I can talk for a lot about this particular question but hopefully that's enough for now. Um, any guys any anything you want to say? Nah. Okay. Okay.

¶66>> I think it's also going to depend on how you define miracle. >> Yeah. >> True. I agree with that actually. >> Tan and black back at it again.

¶67Yes sir. Tim, even with your AV problem, you won. Uh oh. Versus LDL. >> Thank you.

¶68I am agreements. Yeah, >> Randy Bales with the memberships gold coin. But >> Tim, do it. Do the voice, Tim. I can't do it.

¶69I can't do it on the spot now. >> I get too shy. >> What is the Hindu milk miracle? >> Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you asked, John. It's one of the most amazing proofs for Hinduism out there.

¶70Like if you think that pro like you could prove Hinduism by taking some shrooms and then you know like that somehow helps you cope with the idea that you just don't get female attention. Um this will prove Hinduism even more. >> You're so funny. >> As an inside joke between Tim and I. Um, so the long story short is there's a statue and people would put drops of milk on the statue's lips and over time the milk would go away cuz the statue drank it.

¶71>> You know, it's going through John's head right now. >> Look at him. Look at him. Wait, I'm like, look at this dude. He He is He is Yeah, he shook.

¶72He's shook. >> What's going through his head right now is he's like, "I didn't know something could top how bad these Quranic miracles are." But he he's that's what's going through his head right now. He's like, "I thought the Quran miracles were bad." He was like, "I might have to do Hindu miracle streams now." Like he's like he's you reshaped. >> I got to Google it now. Ganesha drinking milk miracle was a massive global event on September 21st, 1995 where statue of the Hindu Ganesha appeared to drink milk from spoons.

¶73>> Did it like open and gulp or >> No, no, no. Like Okay. The explanation >> was it a hot day? >> No, it's not evaporation. It's perforation.

¶74So, the type of stone it is, the the water actually gets absorbed into the stone. Not the water, the liquid gets absorbed into the stone. you can replicate it. >> Alrighty then. I'm I'm totally convinced.

¶75Let's convert to Hinduism. Let's go, boys. >> Uh Tim, take the lead. Uh you do it first and I'll follow behind. >> No, I'm I'm good.

¶76I I already >> experienced the emptiness of matter. Um Cosmic says, "I was actually born with a PhD in psychology." For real. >> For real. Everybody Everybody's a psychologist nowadays. Everybody knows what everybody >> I definitely think that in this stream though, we should react to their Brit Harley video.

¶77>> I'm done with that. We can do that. >> Cuz John really likes her. He's been beefing you. John, you've been beefing with her for years, bro.

¶78>> Who? >> Noonsense spirituality. >> I have no idea who that is. >> The the the blonde woman who um he's made a lot of videos about you and you made a lot of videos about >> the blonde woman. He made what?

¶79>> Oh, what? No. What? Who? I didn't say that, bro.

¶80>> Well, we we'll we'll we'll get to it. Um because super chats were piling in here. I just want to get through them a little bit more. Uh thank you for the generous super chat. Funky Mink.

¶81Funkier Mink. Could that be big? >> What? >> That is my super chat. What are you doing?

¶82You're supposed to give that to me on my channel. What? What? What's What the hell, man? >> Man, you owe me 50 bucks.

¶83That's my money. What? What's going on here? >> How many times? How many times?

¶84How many times have I gotten people to donate like crazy amounts of money on your stream? >> No, I don't want That's my You're good. You got a job. You work for someone. I need that super chat.

¶85>> This is crazy. I'll um I'll I'll I'll email net Netany and Yahoo. Don't worry. Um on that note, Tim, I love how they also go straight to, well, the frequency of X miracles don't have vindicator notes for ex-Christian denominator. Like, okay, bro.

¶86>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not in the fine print. >> It's actually really funny.

¶87What is really, really, really funny about this is there's also I don't I don't have any pictures of this, but like there's so many atheists out there that are specifically using this argument where it's basically like, oh, Joe's a Catholic, but like um sorry, all there's so many other Christian miracles out there that don't vindicate Catholicism. What are you going to do about that, Joe? Meanwhile, they're like, it's like they're inadvertently arguing for Christianity still. It's like, dude, can you like actually think about what you're doing for once? >> Um, while you're doing that, there's something I want to pull up.

¶88I know we're going through super chats right now, but there is something I I think we should read. >> Yeah, we can take good on this. We can take a break for a little bit. What do you want to pull up? Um I actually think Andrew Lok had one of the most tame views of this as someone um as >> Yeah, exactly.

¶89This is what he said. I'll uh I'll share my screen here just in case people want to see it and not just listen to me yap about it. U share screen. All right. Let me know if you can see this.

¶90Yes, sir. All right. So he said, "When Joshu told me back in March that he had converted to Christian theism, I was so overwhelmed with joy that I almost couldn't sleep. He also asked me not to share with anyone. I am glad to finally be relieved of the responsibility now that Joe has made it public." Even though he is still a PhD student, he has one of the most top former non-Christian philosophers examining the case for Christian theism.

¶91That should actually mean a lot. In fact, I honestly think that some of the objections he raised are better than those leading atheist philosophers such as Oppy Malpas Lynford. Ouch. Damn, this is a big one. Although I think these rejections can be satisfactorally answered.

¶92Thus, I was very happy to hear that Joe was finally convinced by the strength of the evidence for Christian theism and that he experienced the goodness of God in the joy of salvation. One point I would like to mention regarding his video testimony is that in addition to the evidence for miracles in the Catholic tradition, which Joe mentioned, there is also evidence for miracles in the context of Eastern Orthodox and Protestant traditions which have been rigorously peer-reviewed and carefully examined. See for example my previous post on the documentary Miracle and the book Testing Prayer published by Harvard University Press which I referenced. The evidence I like this part. The evidences point to a God who graciously does miracles despite our imperfect theologies.

¶93For given some points of differences between Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestantism. It cannot be the case that all these sets of theologies are perfectly correct. Yet God does miracles anyhow because Christ is ultimately exalted. He is the common Lord of Catholics, Orthodox, Christians, and Protestants despite their differences. >> I just like that.

¶94I I I really like that, bro. Like, honestly. >> Yeah. People turning this into an interdenominational beef, a chance to like squabble over that are goofballs. Like, you just need to chill.

¶95We we can beef about it at some point, but we need to celebrate the fact that last year he was saying that Jesus is not even God, not even a figure that's like some sort of deity. And now he's on alive on big big platforms saying Christ is Lord, Jesus is God, right? Christianity, right? Like uh bare bare bare Christianity, mere Christianity is true. Now he's claiming Catholicism and you may disagree with some some aspects in in like the Catholic viewpoint but you also have to give grace.

¶96It could be the case let's say Catholicism is false and this is just the path that he has started on that eventually leads to whatever truth that God wants to lead them to. Or it could be the case that the Protestant viewpoint is false and then it's through his works that people are going to be led to the the truth of Catholicism. Or it could be the case nobody's got it right and we're still all leading to some sort of truth. But we have to recognize that miracles are being done. He's claiming Christ as Lord.

¶97Even if you don't see it as the fullness of truth, quote unquote, this is a good thing that needs to be celebrated. And and people who are using it as a means to squabble, uh, you're just kind of just little weirdos. >> Yeah. I mean, so >> go ahead, Tim. What were you going to say?

¶98>> No, no, no, no. Like what John just said is facts. >> Yeah. I do want to cover um some of the interdenominational nonsense because there's like a clip from some Protestants that was very upsetting to me and I think it's just another thing we can look at. Yeah.

¶99Here. But here's another one. Right. He needs money and attention. Unsubscribe.

¶100No way Joe actually decided Christianity is true. He's just latching on to this because he needs money and attention. >> I wonder if anybody's really done that. like sat there and went like, "Man, money's tight right now. I need to fix that." You know how I'm going to do that?

¶101I'm going to change my entire philosophical foundation and view of the world. I'm going to step in front of hundreds of thousands of people and I'm going to declare a thing that's going to me get me attacked just so I can make some bank. That man, that's a way >> in in a profession because Joe's a PhD student. He wants to get a position as a philosopher on faculty and he's making a public proclamation of conversion to the Christian faith citing one of the most quote unquote intellectually irresponsible pos like arguments and positions you could probably hold in the eyes of the skeptics. >> Yeah, definitely.

¶102I mean, honestly, if he wanted to grift based on religion, >> the best examples of grifting religion is literally Benny Hinn. Like, literally, dude, if you want to make, dude, have that guy's job, bro. You step up on some stages, you just yell some incoherent stuff at some people, they throw you some cash. >> Yeah. I mean, >> 25 hour video series, man.

¶103You're working too hard. >> Cuz cuz cuz listen, Benny Hinn is right. You guys need to give me a bunch of money. Um, I need a new hunting rifle. Not so I can go deer hunting.

¶104Um, but because I need to shoot the demons. Thanks. >> Cue the doom. >> By the way, this Canva AI generated slides. These are great, bro.

¶105>> This is really cringe to me. I don't >> from philosophy to comedy, bro. Like, look at this. >> Yeah, that's so obviously. Anyway, um, okay, this one.

¶106I used to watch you for the philosophy. Now I can watch you for the comedy. Thank you so much. Like >> then doesn't even look at the substance. Like he hasn't really presented anything that's of like deep substance yet and everybody's already throwing him under the bus.

¶107>> I already know that. Yeah, >> I I'm calling it right now. Um, when Joe puts out his 25 hours worth of videos on this topic, nobody's going to I'm not going to say nobody. There will be people that attempt and the attempts will be futile. the the attempts are going to be people basically just cherry-picking sound bites out of the videos trying to argue against what Joe's arguing and fundamentally misunderstanding the methodology and the argumentation like rather than doing >> is not evidence you see >> that's going to be part of it too probably um so this was one on this one was on the video that I made that we posted on our main IP page And this one's really funny to me because in that video I explicitly tell people I say to the camera, "Joe is a good friend of mine.

¶108I've known about this for a while and I had to keep it a secret. Now I finally get to tell you guys." Okay, I I say that in the video and then the amount of people that commented something like this is astounding. >> Like basically me guys, Joe's my friend. He's been a Catholic for about a year now and I'm super excited. I haven't been able to tell anybody.

¶109Blah blah blah blah blah. Here's what he says. The atheist, he's lying to you. He's not your friend. He's pranking you.

¶110It's the first stage of grief. It's denial. They can't accept it. >> H man, dude. Wow.

¶111Yeah. >> Um, somebody asked in the chat, uh, are we going to go look at like videos from James Photo and all that stuff? No. Uh, at least not right now because it it's pointless because people are responding to a testimony video from Joe, not the ar the actual argument from miracles. Like people are making response videos trying to debunk a I really want you guys.

¶112Wait, I you need to understand how stupid this actually is. Okay, Joe made a testimony video. He's explaining the experience and the narrative of his conversion and people are responding to that saying your argument is wrong. Do do you understand how stupid that is? Like I don't care how wrong you think he is.

¶113If I'm like, "Tim, if if if I burn my hand so badly that the nerves feel like it's cold and I say,"Tim, my hand feels cold." >> Are you going to go, "Actually, fan, um, your hand is actually on fire." Okay. And it's, "No, I'm talking to you about my experience." >> I would do that. That's the uh John, go sit in a corner real quick while the adults talk face. >> You can't make me. I'm already I wanted to call you gay and but I respect I respect the self-awareness and the humility to >> say that.

¶114>> I did I did that today. I did that today. Somebody's like, "That food tastes like chemicals." And I was like, "Well, technically everything tastes like chemicals." >> Okay. Well, that that's that's still different because you're not telling them they're wrong. You're just being >> anyway.

¶115>> Yeah, bro. I mean, yeah, another one. I think Joe's trolling you. It doesn't seem legit. Yeah, Joe's been trolling me systematically for a year.

¶116Like, >> there would be >> straight up SC, bro. >> Um, somebody else from Discord. Yeah, somebody else from the Discord server sent me this. >> Wait, is there a Reddit post on this? >> Oh, yeah.

¶117Yeah, there's a Reddit post. I wanted to screenshot some of them from Reddit, but but yeah. Um, as an atheist, like he knows like B. Okay, so this person's saying about Joe when Joe says like his experience as an atheist, right? He's recounting what it was like to be an atheist and an agnostic.

¶118And he says like as an atheist like he knows how all atheists think and they're just missing those few things that to things to make them Christian and love Jesus. If he ever was really atheist and learned enough about Christianity, read the Bible, thought critically, and brushed up on history, related to the Bible, then he would never have become a Christian. Let me translate that for you. If if if Joe was as smart as me and if Joe is as honest as a thinker as me, as a critical as a thinker of me is of me as me, he wouldn't have become a Christian. Yeah, that's totally not arrogant or narcissistic.

¶119This is why I'm saying I I want an actual sociologist to do a case study. uh like a case report on this because it'd be really interesting. I have a few like sociological mechanisms that I think are at play. Um but and okay, before and before we keep going, like I do really want to say again, it's not all the atheists that are doing this. Like I have atheist friends that are just happy like the people at Real Atheology.

¶120Go ahead, Tim. >> Can I read you a comment off Reddit? Sure. Go ahead. >> Oh, so I'm just supposed to ignore the attention money this conversion is going to bring.

¶121How convenient. Categorically removing psych psychological origins from discussion about nature of religion is absurd. If this gri grifter had any intellectual integrity, he wouldn't have announced his conversion until the alleged explanation was available. But what wouldn't drum up to be as hype as much? This dude is just another YouTuber.

¶122Who cares? >> How many papers did you publish? He's he's posted like 40 papers. He's not even a PhD. >> Yeah, that's by the way.

¶123That's the top com. >> What' you say? >> Wait, is he a PhD fan or is he still is he still um in >> He's still a PhD student. Yeah, >> he's student. Okay.

¶124Yeah. If I go to um if I go to his publications like Hey, how many? He's He's got a lot of papers, dude. He has um his most recent paper has 79 references. So yeah, so he has 22 and um his most recent paper has 79 references.

¶125This is on Phil People. Um his um uh all of his papers are well referenced. They're in prestigious journals. >> Mhm. >> 22 papers prior to being an actual PhD and in a teaching position is really impressive.

¶126Yeah. like like like he's published an errantness >> for the step-by-step argument for causal fitism that has 4,712 downloads on Phil papers. Yeah, it's he he's Yeah, for people that think that he's just not a serious thinker, it's it's frustrating. Um and then there's like more comments, right? So you went from a reality based belief system to fairy tales after studying all the philosophical arguments for God.

¶127The argument from miracles is what got you. This has to be a troll. I I picked this one because again case in point example of just how flippant people are with this argument. >> Go ahead, John. >> Let's take this just this idea that like the hand winess of miracles.

¶128I I I don't think if it even if it was the case that God didn't exist and miracles weren't a thing to handwave miracles is silly because the entire religion of Christianity is based off the fact that people were convinced by miracles. It all started on that foundation. So there's something about a miracle that is appealing to people that is convincing to people. And to just kind of like handwave it is silly because there's something there. So even if it was the case that miracles weren't happening, the idea of a miracle is appealing to humanity and it needs to be wrestled with.

¶129It needs to be negotiated with. You can't just be like, "Oh, you're an idiot for believing it because if if that's very arrogant because if like so many people in the world are convinced by miracles and you're like just the special unique individual that's not, it's a very arrogant position." >> Yeah. Um why am I wearing a hat? Somebody asked >> his hair's too beautiful. >> That's why bad.

¶130>> It was really bad. >> This one was really funny. >> Let me see. Either this is trolling or talking about Alex O'Connor or Alex needs to address this. >> Yeah, I don't know why Daddy O'Conor is being invoked here.

¶131>> Alex O' Conor come save us. Like like it's so funny because like people look at him as like the arch like modernday intellectual whatever the case may be but like from an academic perspective like he's not even on the radar. >> Well, Alex refers to Joe Schmid for like philosophical viewpoints. Like very often when they do content together he's asking Joe's opinion, not not he's not really imposing his thoughts upon him. >> Right.

¶132Exactly. Because he knows who the who the teacher in the room is. Right. Which is I'd be doing the same thing. >> Um >> Yeah.

¶133Just like just like Tim does with me, right? When I'm in the room, he shuts up and listens and dadally. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You're the one who likes the room.

¶134>> What's your most recent paper you wrote down? What was it about? >> You couldn't even get it, bro. >> Nice try. >> Is it Is it like the the pro >> It's about probabilities given quantum mechanics.

¶135>> Is it the existential? >> I'm not gonna I'm not going to embarrass you in front of all your viewers by, you know, telling you about my paper. All right. Nice try though. Nice try.

¶136>> Oh man. Uh John, I low key though, John, I want to see you publish just at least one thing in the academic. That would make me so You don't know how happy that make me grow if I see >> John. Do you want to co-author a paper with me? >> I I I would love to.

¶137I would. Yes. Yes. Please. Please.

¶138Can we come back? >> He can't even say it, dude. Do you see this then? I'm I was being serious, John. >> He can't even say paper.

¶139Me, too. Let's Let's do it. Let's do it. >> Dude, that paper send me my half. >> That paper ain't going.

¶140>> There's one There's one rule. You can't proofread whatever I write. That's my only condition. >> Dude, the referees are going to be so mean to John, bro. >> Yeah, because John's just using all this jargon and he's so smart.

¶141It it he's basically like the next um uh Alex Peruse dude. He's just too smart for his own good. >> Totally got that reference. Yeah, that was very funny. >> I'm like about to use I'm about to like transition into like pitching really quick.

¶142Just our our inspired philosophy academy thing and here we are just >> John. You don't know how good that was. That was so good, bro. That was really funny. >> All right, then.

¶143What do we got here? >> Uh, I was just going to remind everybody. Tim, why don't you talk about it so that way I can spare my voice a little bit. >> Yeah, guys. Hey, we have an academy.

¶144>> Oh, yeah. Thank you. Scroll down a little bit. Thank you, my brother. >> So, guys, we have an academy.

¶145Um, we have been building out like crazy. Uh, Inspiring Philosophy Academy. >> Uh, currently we have about 70 members inside right now and we have courses. Yes, we have actually video courses. We have private interviews and lectures with scholars that have been on here and those that you haven't even heard of before.

¶146Um Than and I go live regularly inside the community doing actual teachings. Um I'm constantly coaching inside the community, uh constructing road maps, learning plans, helping you guys learn how to handle objections, come up with new arguments. It's an entire community of people that are hanging out just learning how to get better. And so literally for the cheap on the low, you guys can skyrocket your progress in apologetics. And a lot of you guys want to create content.

¶147We actually have content calls like like literally like where you going to find this elsewhere. We literally have social media and YouTube content calls of how to actually do the stuff that we're doing here. >> So it's a one-stop shop for learning all this stuff. Dan, what do you want to say? >> Yeah.

¶148Um uh the thing I'll add in too is um building off of what you said, Tim. So, if you're an ap if you're somebody that's like an aspiring apologist or you are an apologist that does make content, we have Matt, the guy that actually does all the content for us here at Inspiring Philosophy, that does the algorithm research, that does the composition, all that stuff, and actually has coached Mike, Tim, and me on actual content composition. He will be there to help you guys with that stuff. Um, and on top of that, um, there's there Tim, your schedule will be a little bit more open for these people. My schedule is going to be a little bit tighter for, um, our more premium students where there's actual one-on-one coaching and mentoring.

¶149And I have two slots filled already with two apologists that are, I would argue, up and coming and show a lot of promise. And I have probably two to three spots left open where we get to meet weekly and you will be mentored by me and Tim here and there too. Like we're going to help each we're all going to be part of this as a team. But for me specifically, you I'm looking for like two to three more people that I can actually mentor that are up and cominging apologists and we'll work with you oneon-one and you will be a problem. I'll say that.

¶150>> Real fast. John, I mean, you're inside the academy. You actually attend the calls. Um, you actually do an awesome thing, which is you actually come to learn. Can you tell everyone what the experience has been?

¶151>> It's been great. And I'm not just I'm not just saying that. It's uh um uh the the thing that like I I do like jiu-jitsu metaphors a lot. Um the reason I think like jiu-jitsu works well is because you stress test things and like I was just in class and people literally try to kill me. I literally try to kill them.

¶152And the role play is great because you can stress test like on the fly what it's like in conversation. And uh I think there's like really smart people out there that will get lost in rhetoric and gotchas and uh confidence and you're not going to be able to build that without practicing it. So it gives you opportunity to practice those things and just do it in a safe environment where you're not going to get clipped. You're not going to end up on uh on some some Muslims live. Oh, you see, he denied the Trinity.

¶153Ah, you see. you're going to know how to look out for those things. So, it depends on what your goals are. But, yeah, if you if you want to do like if you want to go into the Tik Tok front lines, uh you need you need to practice and you need to you need to debate people. And then, thank you for that, John.

¶154Than, if you want to rise that one comment by Antonio here, he is asking a really good question. I think that's a Yep. Is there a recommended level of knowledge before doing the academy? What do you think? >> You got to know how to read.

¶155Um, no. Like you the the academy knowing how to read. >> Yeah. No, you have to learn how to read, I guess. Yeah.

¶156>> Ah, see, I did have a bare minimum. Ah, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. the the the way that we're trying the way that we've tried to structure this is that for the entry level person for the academy.

¶157we have a wide enough net that we can get it's structured wide enough that anybody can come in regardless of what they know for the most part obviously um obviously like you know what to eat and know how to read but we've also still structured it in a way that if you do come in having philosophical knowledge at the entry level point you still get multiple wins and things that you've learned because there's tiny little things for instance that like in skills that you might not have learned um while you've only studied like what maybe philosophy or history or stuff like that. So yeah. All right, let's get back to it here, guys. And then we'll get to some super chats again. I don't know if you can see this, but like this guy, nah, I don't I don't believe this.

¶158You sound lobomized, and I mean that from a place of pure respect and care. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. You sound labbotomized, but I mean that from a place of pure respect and care.

¶159There's people just so I grew up. >> Yeah. Um, my goodness, this is one of the more cringe-worthy videos I've seen in a while. Blah blah. And basically on an on an intellectual level, yikes.

¶160If this isn't performance art, it's a shining example of how religious mania seems to break people's brains. Like these some of these guys are just like so mean, dude. It's just Mhm. >> Ben, did you know that uh you currently have a hundred viewers that haven't hit the like button? You got a hundred people watching you right now that haven't taken like five seconds out of their day to just click a thumbs up button.

¶161That's wild. Well, they're just they're just taking this content for free and they don't even have the common decency or respect to click that little thumb. >> No, they haven't liked it because they're sending us our Netanyahu money >> with MSAD agents that are not liking it. They don't want to leave evidence that ties us to MSAD. That's all.

¶162Thank you that though, dude. Guys, like the video. John said so. You have to do it. Okay.

¶163Um, then there's people that are trying to like again give more psychological reasons. They're not trying to debunk Joe, right? Urge to not be left out and shunned by the group is a common tactic used by cults and religions to keep it the sheep and blah blah blah. Snuck snakes and donkeys talk. >> Well, >> like, hold on, hold on.

¶164Isn't the biggest gripe with Christianity that we just won't shut up and leave people alone? >> I'm confused here. I thought I thought everybody Well, stop pushing your religion on us. Stop trying to invite us over to your church. Stop trying to hang out with us all the time.

¶165Leave us alone. And then, oh yeah, the the shunned from the common group and pushed everybody. Like, which one is it? Are we too evasive? Are we shunning too many people?

¶166Pick pick a path. Pick pick your victim card. >> Yeah. You know what's funny? You know what's really funny about this too is like all these people are psychologizing Joe and the most interesting part about this is like I I think we can actually point to a real sociological and psychological mechanism going on with the atheist community right now.

¶167Right. >> But what if theism predicts for that? >> You What do you mean? >> Dude, then gave me the benefit of the doubt. He was out he was about to just not listen to anything I'm about to say.

¶168What I'm What if I'm saying what if theism predicts >> for these psychological mechanisms that are that we see sprouting up? >> Oh, I think it does when it comes to Yeah. So, so this is just like welcome to our worldview, >> right? Yeah. No, 100%.

¶169>> That's embarrassing, isn't it? The scripture does say there are stupid people out there. Yeah. Well, >> then wanted to get so serious and real and then there's John and I. Two brain cells left >> like this.

¶170Bro, that >> No, no. I mean, like John's also right, dude. >> Guess Christianity predicts stupid people. >> Uh John Chrysum said there was a there was a demon of stupidity. >> So, >> yeah, I think that's what um Never mind.

¶171I'm not going to say that. Uh So I think I think that's what the Dawa bros are possessed by. Um the there is an interesting psychological and like sociological mechanism probably happening here though with a lot of the atheist community, right? Um if you know anything about cognitive science, um there's tribal like we we have tribalistic tendencies, right? So there's the atheists/skeepical community tribe and there's the Christian tribe and >> no atheists aren't a tribe.

¶172They don't collectively agree on things. They're just like you know this. >> They're guess what they're going to say. >> You say this you say this. >> Did you get that today in your life?

¶173Is that what someone said? >> No. I guarantee you if there's going to be an atheist watching this and they're gonna post isn't a world view. Blah blah blah blah blah. It's not a world view.

¶174If you're sitting if you're an atheist sitting here listening to that. I mean like look, you're just you're just wrong. Like there there is a atheist culture. There is a skeptical culture. You guys literally have a whole community of people that make content and you surround each other with like you you identify as a skeptic.

¶175It's part of your narrative identity. So if you're denying this, you get the point. Okay. That being said, and um and Joe was a perceived leader in the tribe. Does that make sense?

¶176He was a person with social authority in the tribe and he has left the tribe. Obviously, what's going to happen is people are going to go through stages of grief and because the the the the tribe leader has left his tribe to go to a different tribe that stands for everything that's against the tribe that he left. Does that make sense? >> So, basically what you're saying is they lost their girlfriend and we got him. >> So, they're heartbroken.

¶177Well, actually, >> actually, >> real fast then. When do you want to get into that video? >> Which one? >> The Brett Heartley video. >> I was going to show one more thing.

¶178Um, and then making a few super chats >> and then get into the Brad Heartley one. Does that sound good? >> Grow our lats. All right. >> You say grow our lats.

¶179>> Yes, sir. >> Let's do some Yeah, let's do some uh let's do some uh some lat pull downs then. Heck yeah, bro. Um, where is this thing? Here we go.

¶180Share screen. So, this video hopefully. Wait, I don't know if I set it up so you can hear the audio. >> These dudes, bro. >> Let make sure you can hear the >> call Darth Cidius.

¶181Come on. Get out of here, >> dude. Why'd you show us those dudes, bro? >> Like, listen. Hold on.

¶182Pause this real quick. Tell me right now that needed God.net is not about to order uh not about to do order 66. Tell me I'm wrong. >> Yeah, >> tell me I'm wrong. >> I got to see this.

¶183>> I got to see this. Right. >> At the risk of broadcasting a denomination here, this video pissed me off. Okay, if you're a Protestant and you think the way that the people do in this video think, you are no better than the atheist. Like, if you're using this to start a denomination war, and you're going to say things as incredibly um I I'll suspend my words for now as this.

¶184I'm I'm sorry, man, but like I I'll reserve the rest of my words for after we we play this. Let me know if you >> This is just more evidence of these unks need to be stopped. >> This is what you get with the individuals. They they're attracted to Roman Catholicism because of its miracles, because of its beauty, because of its ancient uh >> how dare they miracles and beauty. What is he going to say next?

¶185parts of the traditions that it has. >> Wait, hold on. Hold on. His gripe is they're attracted to Catholicism because Catholicism has miracles. But then what was Jesus's sign and wonder to attract people to Christianity?

¶186Just curious like I give no sign but the sign of, you know, miracle. What's what's your contention? Also, why is he looking at me like that? >> Yeah, that's a crazy part to pause on, bro. Play the video.

¶187I can't walk out of this. >> I just I just want John to get more and more. I don't know. I don't know what he's feeling. >> Wow.

¶188>> Anger. >> Jesus leading them there. It's never what Jesus did on the cross. It's always these other things. And notice it's Mary.

¶189It's Mary that brings people in. Mary's a demon. And I'm telling you, she's one of the powerful demons. >> Wait, what? What?

¶190>> Wait, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This got to be sad. >> Yeah.

¶191No, you heard that right. No, this is brought to you by this guy ain't real, bro. >> Is a demon and I'm telling you, she's one people in. Mary's a demon and I'm telling you, she's one of the powerful demons. She's not Mary the mother of Jesus.

¶192This Mary that they've invented where they call her queen of heaven that happens at the council of Ephesus during Ephesus, which is where we also see the goddess of Diana. It's talked about in in the book of Acts, which is a whole another story. That's who this Mary is. She's a she's a demon. She has nothing to do with Mary.

¶193>> Okay, hold on. So, I'm going to try to steal man this. It's not that Mary's a demon. I don't want to I don't want to It's not that they they think there's a perverted version of Mary that is a demon and is not the real Mary. Is that Is that their position?

¶194>> Yes. Now, if you're a Protestant, oops, Lamb actually just said exactly what you need to think about. >> Luther calls Mary the queen of heaven. Same at you even got you even got a Baptist in here. Okay, mad respect Randy Bales because >> Baptists don't say this.

¶195>> But yeah, as a Baptist he says what? >> But hold on, correct me if I'm wrong. John Calvin also said this, right? >> Um I don't know. I don't know.

¶196I'm pretty sure he did. I'm pretty sure he venerated there >> and he's he's the he's the king of like >> anti the anti-atholic culture. Um just a quick Google search says that he did not say this, but I don't necessarily trust Google AI that much. So >> somebody in the chat said so. So anyways, um >> yeah, I don't remember much about Calvin's works to be honest with you.

¶197So um >> so so what what is it what is it that they think is demonic about the the Catholic version of Mary? It's also not far removed from the ether orthodox. My guess right my guess is that they think that one it's a begging the question in ter on and uh for a particular definition of worship which they think they think that the Catholics are cultically venerating Mary rather than venerating Mary or not even the Catholics but Catholic tradition does and they think that if you are to do so right then that's a demonic act because that is only owed for Yahweh. >> But that wouldn't that wouldn't follow that the Mary in herself is demonic. That would just follow that they're doing like like like in the the book of Revelation when he falls in front of the angel, the angel says, "Don't fall and bow before me.

¶198I'm not God." If the practice of doing that was demonic, that wouldn't make the angel demonic. that you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

¶199So essentially then they might be saying that there's this demon that that that like you know opportunistically finds these Catholics and they go hey >> so like the appearance of Zyun for instance. >> Yeah. >> Now here's the thing. I'm just going to make a credential argument for anybody out there that denies high marology. Do you really want to face Jesus one day and then be corrected by him about your opinion about, for instance, any of these Marian apparitions and have Jesus ask you, "Why did you call my mom a demon?

¶200I wouldn't take that risk. >> I mean, does does it not say in Luke? What do they do with the fact that in Luke where it says that all generations will call her blessed? >> Well, I I look, I'm not I don't want to make this a debate about myology. I don't want to do that here.

¶201>> I'm asking a question. What do they do with that? >> Yeah. Um, giant dock, what's up, guys? Thank you.

¶202Thank you. Thank you. Look, those are really good question. That's like a good question. It's just like the it's it's I wanted to point to the fact that it's not just atheists that are having this problem, right?

¶203The atheist problem is much more pronounced right now. But rather than just like celebrating the fact that somebody left atheism/ agnosticism and came to Christ, there are certain non-atholics out there that are using this to basically start their own tribalistic nonsense. And it's just kind of like really sad to me. That's all I really like. I really I wanted to get into that cuz that like that was really sad to me to go that far too.

¶204>> Have you guys seen any like Catholics use this as a means of like arguing for them being the only true church? I haven't seen that. I've only seen the attack. I haven't seen the defense. >> Um I actually haven't to be honest with you.

¶205Um I've seen Catholics very excited >> Yeah. about like the fact that vindicatory miracles and all that stuff is coming to the table now. Um but no, I haven't seen any like Yeah. So, um let's do some super chats and then we'll um get into the Brit Heartley video. Actually, no.

¶206Before we do the Brit Harley video, Tim, are you frozen? >> Dude, this dude's a statue, bro. Let's see. Um, before we do this, I actually do want to give props to an atheist content creator actually before we do the Brit Heartley one. Um, so we'll do that after this.

¶207Um, data is not real because pee pe fallacy >> ding-dong fallacy. Yeah, >> the way fan read that was so funny. I was kind >> Hold on, read the rest of the super chat. Don't skip it. >> Also, w >> Yeah, >> I'm here.

¶208Are we still friends then? Yes. Thank you for coming. I pinged everybody in the Discord server telling them that if they don't show up that they're they I'm not going to be friends with them anymore. >> So, >> he he he uses weaponized friendship a lot.

¶209Trust me. >> Um Than when I first heard about the Odyssey, I heard it as Than Odyssey. And >> how does this happen, dude? Damn, how do you do that? You know, I don't believe for one second you don't manufacture stuff like this, bro.

¶210I don't I don't >> You sign off on all of us. No, no, no, no. >> I What makes you think What makes you think I have the power >> to somehow gaslight and manipulate a bunch of people on the internet >> for a different day? >> Something about being a psychopath or something like that. >> I mean, all of these dudes, bro, doing all this stuff, bro.

¶211How just happened, dude? John and Tim are in the backwards hat club, but Than is repping. My hat was backwards and then the thing I don't like about the backwards hat is just like when I do this, then my hat brim hits my traps and then my hat falls off. >> Bro's flexing. >> The muscles are too big to put on my hat backwards.

¶212>> That's my issue. >> He just did a sneak flex. >> Uhuh. Supposed to >> Bros. Bros, have you ever had the issue of your muscles being so big you can't wear your hat backwards?

¶213>> Have you ever had that issue? >> Than also can't wipe his butt, just so you know, he can't do that. His muscles are too big. >> Oh man, dude. Um, 10 inspiring falsy memberships.

¶214Thank you. Lock pro EOS react the same way to Catholic miracles. Um, is Joe or Piccolo's arc better? >> Oh man, why we can't compare these? That's >> that's putting us in a bind.

¶215>> It's Joe. >> Alex Okconor needs a Vegeta arc. >> Another generous super chat from Funky. Um, I used to >> Funky, man. You when the next time that uh next time you that John goes live, you're gonna have to give him like five grand or something, dude.

¶216minimum. >> I I used to think I knew things until I heard Than Speak. Now I realize I'm closer to the chocolate forest Gump eats than a shred of intelligence. That's not true, bro. I'm just a dude.

¶217We're all just dudes. >> The fan glaze continues. >> Sunday. >> I'm just a dude who can't wear my hat backwards cuz my muscles are too big. I'm like everyone else.

¶218>> It's like that one meme with with uh what's his name? Who's the who's the guy who plays Superman? Henry Caval or whatever. It's like, "Hey bro, I took your advice on how to talk to women and it worked out great, bro. Thanks.

¶219>> I'm just like you." >> Okay. You know what, guys? I I'm You know, I know you somehow you guys are going to turn what I'm about to say into like another fake humble brag. I'm not even going to say it. >> Just do it.

¶220Just do it. Just do it. >> No, I was just going to say like I I'm already wearing an XL right now to hide things. Like now I'm going to just like I'm just trying to I'm just I'm going to wear hijab. >> I guess that's what I have to the Muslims are right man.

¶221>> I have to hide my a Sunday mass athlete. This is the proof. As a Protestant vindicator miracles work in stages. I also hold that Catholic that Catholic miracles occurred but the year's distinctions of what is vindicative vindic whatever you know the word um all the miracles vindicate the non-estimonial northern south protox church >> the northern the non-estimonial northern south proathodox church of Christ bones of the western east of wstantinople get real do it right next time all right put some respect on the name >> somebody said fan. >> Wait, >> that's my denomination by the way, Tim, if you didn't know.

¶222>> I thought you were a part of the Products Oriental Church of the East. I thought you were trans. >> Well, for for the latter, both can be true at the same time. >> Okay. Okay.

¶223All right. We'll um suspend super chats for a little bit here. I want to give props to an atheist YouTuber that >> normally his content gets on my nerves, but I think he was really level-headed and I really like I believe in giving >> I believe >> I believe look listen I believe in giving credit where credit it's due is due. Oh >> and I was actually >> I haven't forgiven him. >> I haven't forgiven him yet.

¶224>> Oh yeah you had beef dude >> as a Christian I haven't forgiven him. This is Yeah, I was going to say, this is quite ambitious uh for you to bring this guy up. Well, John, >> traumasize. Are you trying to put me in a Christ-like position where I have to forgive this this >> No, no, no. John, John, John, you don't have to say a word.

¶225You can sit there and look really angry the whole entire time if you want to. Okay, there you go. All right, let me know if you can hear this. >> Working towards recon converting toward Catholicism. I don't know Joe at all.

¶226And what I don't want this video to be because I hate it when Christians do this is to say, "Oh, he must be grifting or he was never really an atheist or anything like that." Joe is worth taking seriously from the little bit I've watched of him and looking into his background. He's a Princeton philosophy PhD candidate. He's published in metaphysics and philosophy of religion. He's co-authored an academic book on theistic proofs and of course all the work that he's done on majesty of reason which again I wish I was more familiar with for this video but I'm just not. So if I get anything wrong about Joe forgive me.

¶227So what happened here? Joe changed his mind. Joe says directly that he has converted that it is sincere and that his personal journey involves intellectual, emotional and spiritual components. Good for him. Seriously, good for him.

¶228Many people I read through the comments. I was interested since I don't know Joe at all. Of course, it was a mixed bag of comments. You had so many people, I've been praying for you. Welcome back to the faith.

¶229Good for you, brother. You had a lot of atheists that were throwing out, oh, he's grifting or this is April Fool's joke too late in the year. Or this is some kind of social experiment. They just couldn't wrap their head around that. Someone that had seemed to understand all of the issues so well all of a sudden was just again 180.

¶230Like it's the way he speaks about it. Just watch this opening for those of you that have >> you get the point. Like again, credit where credit is due. Like I want to be fair to the atheist. >> He's just lying.

¶231He's just lying to set. >> He's just grifting. He's just grifting. Um >> he's just >> he's actually having a manic episode, guys. Um, >> I don't trust him.

¶232It's also big plot. He's just trying he's just trying to sound nice. >> I I do like Mind Shift, if you're listening. I I seriously tons of respect for the levelheadedness there. >> Mind shift, if you're listening, stop running from me, bro.

¶233>> Yeah, bro. I thought >> I'm just teasing. I'm not actually that >> No, no, I know. No, Mind Shift, you guys have to debate now. Sorry.

¶234>> Yeah, let's see it. >> Otherwise, you're a Msad agent. Um, okay. >> Tim, uh, I don't How do I look up this br? >> I got it.

¶235I can share my screen on it. >> Yeah, share your screen. >> I already got I already got it pulled up. So, >> this is going to be good. We can kind of do on the fly kind of react, but I think we're going to like it.

¶236>> All right. Cool, cool, cool. Can y'all see this? >> I got to pull it up, bro. Hold on.

¶237There you go. >> Okay, cool. Let's get into it. >> Oh, her. >> Yeah, bro.

¶238John. Dude, you and her have been going back and forth for years. >> No, we have I made one video about her, she blocked me, >> and then uh So, wait, I made one video about her, she blocked me, and then Danny came at me about the same video, and that was it. >> Unless she's unless she made a whole bunch of content about me that I'm unaware of. >> She's always doing stuff.

¶239But let's watch. >> What about Joe Schmid from Majesty of Reason, who was an agnostic atheist who converted to Catholicism? I have a theory on this based on just hearing so many stories of atheists who go back to their childhood religion. And in my experience, again, just my experience and hearing many of these stories >> during their time as an atheist. They didn't have existential tools for meaninglessness or isolation or death.

¶240They didn't have community. They didn't have ritual in their life. They didn't have ways to prioritize love and service. They didn't have story and narratives that were really driving their life. They they weren't cultivating wisdom.

¶241have opportunities for awe or states of transcendence. >> Yo, she's doing she's doing the cannon and she's she's priming the audience. From my experience, I'm not saying this is specifically Joe. I'm just saying every time I've seen it from my experience. I'm not saying anything.

¶242I'm just asking questions. These are all the emotional primed reasons of psychologically on why they all go back to it. She's setting up her audience to already believe that Joe's doing it for non good faith reason. >> That's a very good catch. And again, this is why I like that Than says we need to get a sociologist on this like like like we need to get like a a just a good sample, someone that knows the machinery and has the resources to do so.

¶243Because you're right, she's going from anecdotal experience, but because she's an authority in her videos, people are going to be able to facly extrapolate that to all situations like this. That's a good catch, John. Let's get it. Let's get into it. >> Or contemplation or meaning or purpose or all these things that religions give you.

¶244So for example, when I talked to Rain Wilson who went back to his childhood Bahigh faith after after a time in atheism, I flat out asked him like, if you would have had all those things, would you have gone back to the Bahigh religion? Because at the time when he was an atheist, he was just miserable and also abusing alcohol. So for Joe, what I'm seeing is that he had a childhood faith of Catholicism. By the ninth grade, he was really convinced of evolutionary arguments. He was really bothered by the problem of evil and the problem of suffering.

¶245got into kind of new atheism and had some like surface level atheist arguments. He's young. >> And then as he got older and he went into philosophy and >> when the hell did Joe Schmidt get into new age atheism? >> Just I think >> I think she's just inferring in like his teenage years right now. >> I did he post content about it?

¶246>> No. >> As far as I know, he was never new age. >> No. No. I think she said new atheism like like the like the red.

¶247>> Yeah, the new atheist movement. I didn't mean new age. I I meant new atheist. Sorry. Yeah.

¶248Um Yeah. Yeah. The new atheist movement. Like that has never been the type of rhetoric I've ever seen Joe do. Ever.

¶249>> Correct me if I'm wrong. >> No. No. I've never I've never seen Joe do it as well. Um I think she's going off of like when Joe said that like so this is what I know personally.

¶250prior to reading necessary existence um by Raspersonson in his introduction to Rasmusen he he didn't say I don't correct me if I'm wrong I don't think Joe ever said he was a new atheist I think he said that he had uh he didn't think that arguments for theism could even be rational or something like that >> yeah I don't remember off the top of my head >> yeah so there's a there's a lot of ambiguity there for sure let's get into it >> in theology he actually understood and Alex Okconor had the same arc. He actually learned that there's a lot better arguments to theism than what he originally thought and that Christianity was more plausible than he originally thought. So I would say that arguments determine which worldview is intellectually viable for us. It gives it gives us some options of of what is available to us or not. But then our existential needs are the things that are driving which worldview you actually want to inhabit.

¶251So what seems to have happened is as soon as theism and then Catholicism just passed a basic credibility threshold that oh there's more sophisticated arguments here than I first realized all of a sudden then he was able to talk about things like love and prayer and beauty and God and relationship and purpose and that he did. >> So I actually don't like that framing. I think that's actually false. >> I was I was going to disagree with you. I'm >> No, no, no.

¶252I I don't like the framing, but I want to see what Than says if he's been paying attention. >> Um I want to relisten to the last like maybe 10 seconds cuz I'm trying I want to make sure I'm understanding exactly what she's saying rather than assuming she's making a really naive argument. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um this is Instagram on desktop, so I don't think I can go back without restarting the whole thing.

¶253>> I think if you hit play, then the you'll see the bar. He didn't have those things before in his life. >> So once his childhood faith became intellectually plausible, the existential needs and existential advantages of Catholicism actually kind of accelerated this conversion. And by the way, this isn't from a judgmental place. I also did this too.

¶254Like I >> So this is what I mean by by not liking the framing. So I I'll just say it real fast. The reason why I don't like this framing is because what Joe and we know this from understanding theistic arguments. What Joe is doing is he says when you stack up confirmations from general facts about reality to specific facts about reality, certain theories either remain on the table or they go off of the table. And as you narrow the data set, there are certain theories that just narrow it the what is poss what is the most probable that it can actually explain.

¶255So for example, right, um you can have theories that start out where okay, maybe we can we can account for the cosmos, but then some can't account for fine-tuning. And then once you get into like the moral domain, you have a few theories left over. But then once you start thinking about what's left over okay what's packaged inside the moral domain you have um exemplification of love and sacrifice etc and so forth when you think about ultimate theories not all ultimate theories predict for the moral domain having the dimension of self-sacrificial love so what Joe is doing he's going okay well then what theories are left on the table that actually strongly predict for this over others oh okay well now we're just we're left with like with like not only the Abrahamic faiths, but now we're left over with something like Christianity. Okay, now he has Christianity and now he's asking himself what's going to distinguish and discriminate amongst the three large denominations of Christianity. Okay, well the only discriminating data in that sense is going to be miracles.

¶256So all Joe is doing is he's whittling down right the outcome space to what theories are actually able to strongly predict for that data sequentially. You start from general, you go to specific. Like that's the methodology. That's just what's happening, right? Existential needs, right?

¶257From what I've understood from Joe, and then you're going to know better than me is I it sounded like Joe started to see as he started to take intellectually seriously Catholicism, his need for a savior. Like all of a sudden, he's like, "Oh, wow. I actually kind of do see my sin." >> Oh, this is very interesting. As I've been studying miracles, I kind of do see my sin. It wasn't this explanatory prior thing which is I I feel my sin.

¶258What theories help me take care of my sin? You know what I'm saying? >> Pretty good, Tim. I was going to say the same thing. >> Um, no, I I agree with everything you're saying, Tim.

¶259The thing that's going on here is, how do I word this? So what she is saying can be true without like there nothing let's put it this way I can agree to everything that she's saying but here's a good question to ask what is the rhetorical goal of this video >> does she it's >> does she state a conclusion does she state like a factual conclusion or therefore at the end of the I don't remember. I don't remember either. I I I watched this that one time that you sent it to that that I came across it. I got pissed off because of the psychoanalysis and all this other nonsense.

¶260>> I don't remember what the end was. So, go to the end really quick before I say what I said. But >> dog, this video is the atheist equivalent of uh he just wanted to sin. What's happening, guys? Here, let let me pull it up on Tik Tok instead because the Tik Tok on desktop gives me a a scroller wheel.

¶261>> Okay. >> Is that what they call it? A is that what the kids call it? The scroll wheel? >> I don't know, bro.

¶262>> Um, >> is that what these urban youths call it today? >> Not urban. >> Urban youths is crazy work. >> They said they're all right. Uh, let's do this.

¶263>> Let me know when it's >> ready. We're going to we're going to share this tab instead. Does everyone see this? Yeah, >> there you go. I just took Van said go to the go to the end.

¶264He's like, let's skip this. >> There we go. >> Christianity. When I had more sophisticated arguments, but it wasn't because the arguments were so great. It was because I had existential needs under that.

¶265And as soon as I got a few sophisticated arguments, that was enough for me to stay on board. >> Okay. Well, that's actually a good summary. We can keep going. But Dan, what do you what do you >> just keep going?

¶266Keep going. >> Go, go, go. >> But it was for deeper existential reasons. And my goal here with nononsense spirituality is not to shame people who are religious. I was religious for most of my life.

¶267It's to give existential tools for people so they don't have to go back to religion to get those tools. >> Hold on. Before you go, before you go, how are you going to in the same breath say it's not my goal to shame people? I just want to spend the ne these three minutes telling you that the only reason you believe what you believe is because you have this emotional desire to believe it. And it's not because of your intellectual prowess.

¶268It's not because you're smart or can figure out the data. It's just because you were primed to and you just really need it to be true. But I'm not trying to shame anybody up here. I'm not doing that at all. >> My god.

¶269>> Yeah. So this is why I was asking what is the rhetorical purpose of the video? She she's being super sneaky with it, right? But it's painfully obvious to a person that is informed on sociology and psychology, mind you. Um, >> Joe Schmid.

¶270>> Joe, yes, I am flexing on you. You There's a super chat that I'm I can't wait for you guys to read soon. Right. But Joe Schmid again, potential leader of the tribe or at the or best a tremendous asset to the tribe of the not religious camp. Right.

¶271He Joe has an intellectual status and intellectual hierarchy in the tribe. He leaves, right? And that is a threat to the narrative identity of everybody in that tribe. Does that make sense? So, it's not about like just just trace this reasoning.

¶272Now, if I'm going to use the same exact reasoning that somebody like Brit is using or some of the atheists are using here, it has nothing to do with the evidence or the arguments, right? Jo like if I'm Brit, I'm just doing an epistemic status reversal of Joe, taking him from up here to down here because Joe converting is a threat to my tribe and therefore a threat to my narrative identity. Therefore, taking away my existential >> like comfort in all this other stuff. >> Mhm. >> John John, what are you you're making a face?

¶273What's going on? >> Well, because Tim said my name. Now I want to know what the rest is. >> I was going to say I want John to write a paper on the epistemic status re Sorry. Sorry.

¶274>> I did that last week, >> dog. You need to give me a challenge. Like, come on. Relax. >> It's cuz Dan just dropped that.

¶275So casually, yeah, what she's trying to do is this thing as you know we do. Sorry. Anyways, well look, this is just like f this is like the fancy way of saying, right, the like what the literature would say and stuff like that, but it's basically exactly what John said earlier. >> Yeah. So it you can you can literally grant everything that Brit said in that video and what doesn't follow is anything remotely close to what her rhetorical goal is at the end of the day.

¶276If her rhetorical goal is to say you don't need Christianity to have this existential fulfillment and blah blah blah blah blah blah, right? That doesn't mean Joe is wrong. It doesn't mean that you should doubt anything because because here maybe this will be helpful Tim and John and tell me if you think I'm wrong. >> You're wrong. >> Every everybody is looking at Joe's conversion and the question inside their head >> looking at themselves.

¶277>> Yeah. And the question in their head that they're not explicitly asking but they're feeling right. They're feeling the question is what do I do with this and how does this affect my beliefs? Doc, it's a breakup. They're all They got They all got left.

¶278They So like their their the spouse that they're with just left them and like ah no, he did he left because he was a douchebag. It's because he wanted he wanted to cheat on us and we we hate him anyways, right? He was just awful. When the reality is like he was a really great guy. Uh he really knew his stuff and he left for intellectual reasons, but they're all trying to cope.

¶279Oh no, no, he he left because >> I actually I actually want to show you guys this. Than you're going to appreciate this. So what I did for fun is I downloaded the transcript of the video and I have I had AI I told AI I said take this transcript and convert it to a logically valid syllogism following an inference rule in an analytically rigorous fashion for steel man representation. And this is how it's representing her argument from the video. And you know what?

¶280I think this is pretty cool. Let me show you guys real quick. Yeah, share your screen. This is this is actually great. Okay, here's the uh here's a steel man, right?

¶281Um, the speaker is proposing a two-stage model of worldview adoption. Yo. Okay, so we got some models. Okay, cool. Two-stage model of worldview adoption.

¶282Let's get it. Number one, intellectual arguments determine which worldviews enter the set of live option. They enter them, guys. And two, existential considerations help select. So, it's a selection pressure.

¶283Select amongst those live options. Okay, great. So, let's get it. Oh, dude. We got some analytic uh uh formulations here.

¶284I love it, bro. World. Okay, so we have worldview W is intellectually viable for person X. World view uh W. So, world view substantially satisfies X's salient existential needs.

¶285X is motivationally disposed to adopt or inhabit worldview W. Existential considerations materially, John likes that word, materially contribute to X's adoption of W. Then we have P1 for any person X in worldview W if W becomes intellectually viable for X substantially satisfies existential needs that are otherwise unmet and those existential advantages are motiv motivationally influence X's worldview selection then those existential considerations materially contribute to X's adoption and boom baby we just get this >> this is just this is just evidence that this is just evidence that knowledge gapping doesn't mean that you know what that you're freaking talking Wow, >> this is just so Look, so far so far this is this is I'm agreeing with everything that's happening. >> I love this. I love this.

¶286This is great. Okay, so we got this quantification logic going on here. Boom. I like this. All right, premise two.

¶287Catholicism became intellectually viable for Joe Schmidt. I like that premise. Boom. Viable for Joe. Okay, cool.

¶288Crystal. Awesome. P3. Catholicism offered Joe substantial existential goods such as meaning, prayer, beauty, love, relationship, purpose, transcendent, and religious practice which on the proposed account were insufficiently available to him in his prior atheistic or agnostic framework. P4, those existential advantages motivationally influenced Joe's movement toward Catholicism once Catholicism became intellectual viable to him.

¶289Therefore, existential considerations materially contribute to Joe Schmidt's adoption of Catholicism. This is valid by conjunction introduction plus universal instantiation plus modus ponent. So we got some good inference rules going on here. >> So it it's missing the part where you give a false dichotomy at the end and insist that we have to pick the two and if we don't we're running. >> Yeah.

¶290So keep scrolling. I want to see. All right. So this is a deeper argument in ordinary analytic language. When a worldview is regarded as intellectually nonviable, the existential attractiveness will ordinarily be insufficient for a reflective agent to rationally inhabit it.

¶291I like that. P2. Once a worldview crosses an agent's threshold of intellectual viability, its existential advantages can become motivationally operative in determining whether the agent adopted um fan. Notice how it says can can become. I like that.

¶292P3 because that's important. The canon part. P3. Catholicism initially failed Joe Schmidt's intellectual viability threshold, but later philosophical and theological investigation caused it to cross that threshold. P4.

¶293After Catholicism crossed that threshold, it provided existential goods that Joe valued and that the speaker alleges were comparatively lacking in his atheistic life. P5, those existential goods exerted substantial motivational influence upon his subsequent worldview selection conclusion. Therefore, Joe's eventual Catholic conversion was plausibly produced by a combination of intellectual permissibility and existential motivation rather intellectual argument alone. And so I think that's the seal fair seal man because it preserves an important distinction. Arguments constrain the choice set.

¶294>> Existential considerations influence the selection within it or formally ex intellectual evidence lead to epistemic viability followed by epistemic viability plus existential attractiveness lead to worldview adoption. Okay. But it does say there's a weakness. P4 and P5 are empirical claims about Joseology. the argument can be perfectly valid while remaining unound unless there is an adequate evidence.

¶295So let's we can just kind of satisfy this here, right? Sounds like John what you're saying is hey this is a valid argument but it's unound fan I think you like it for steelman purposes as well as >> false I disagree with premise for >> so so so >> well that's what I'm saying >> this is this is partly why I'm saying you can grant all of this and it doesn't get you to this conclusion of saying like Joe's conversion is not something you should worry about or Joe's conversion isn't something that you should care like whatever it is right the rhetorical goal, whatever the intended effect that people like this have on the person that's on the audience, right? >> Well, have you ever heard my like rhetoric of this sneeze? >> Well, hold on. Cuz cuz this is super important, guys.

¶296If if you think for a damn second that any worldview adoption shift doesn't happen for some sort of existential reasons. You are lying to yourself. You're deceiving yourself and you're just so uninformed on basic human psychology that you you you need to stop whatever it is that you're doing. Atheists will leave the Christian faith for existential reasons. For instance, if you're >> No, no, they all leave for intellect.

¶297You know that. >> Oh, >> sure. But like, okay, it'll start with the intellect, mind you. Intellectual permissibility. Oh, uh, I just found out about dinosaurs and now my faith is, you know, I'm doubting it.

¶298And next thing you know, you come across the skeptical community that looks at you and goes, "Oh, you're not crazy, dude. I have the same story." All of a sudden, you have this existential like identity thing that's happening to you where the community you're being a part of, you don't really identify with them because you're going through some struggles. It's become intellectually permissible in your mind, right? That maybe Christianity is false. And you come across people that give you these feelings of ex of of inclusion, that you're not crazy, that you're feeling vindicated and all that.

¶299Now you're motivated to join the other community. It's the same backstream effect. But so so to add on to what you're saying the the whole deconstructive movement everybody who makes a deconstructive like TikTok all start they get asked why do you do this and they say because I want to make it clear to other people that are deconstructing that they have a safe place and there's people like them out there like so you're 100% right >> that that's that and that just goes back to my earlier point which is like why I'm so freaking good because I noticed the can word right notice what she's saying right and this is very very simple this is very similar to a move Grappy makes Right? When you ask grandma, okay, John, if you look at frigin grandma, okay, look at me, bro. When you when you ask faking grandma, yo, why are you not a theist?

¶300You know what he's going to say? He's going to say because I don't have to be cuz his entire point >> literally said that. >> Yes. Exactly. His entire point isn't that theism is irrational and atheism is rational.

¶301He thinks both positions are rational. But he says >> grandma is actually pretty based. >> Well, I know. So, but here's the but that's not my point. My point is that Graham Oppy is saying based on selection criteria, I can choose naturalism over theism and still be rational, but that doesn't make the theist irrational.

¶302We can do the same thing here. I mean, look at this, right? Um, let's go to uh where is it? It says um uh I think it was in this one. Um, look >> P5.

¶303>> It's it's ex P2. its existential advantages can become motivationally operative in determining whether an agent adopts it. Very very important. Right? So what she's saying is um so so Than is saying that it has the same backstream effect for atheism.

¶304Right? So this can be a reason for both worldviews. Um it can be a motivationally the motivational operations in the background determining whether an agent adopts it. Right? That's why I want to use the word can.

¶305meaning it's not obligatory or compelling, right? Um, but it's an it's a it's available as a selection criteria. And so if that's the case guys then deconstructionists should be consistent and argue like that all the time which is hey the reason why I am in this position is because my the uh my what's motivationally operative in the background is that um the church or whatever contributes to harm or something like that um and that's going to uh not feed my existential needs but I don't have to get my existential needs from there and that's perfectly fine. But it's different than saying and therefore one is not rational in ex in actually um embracing the Christian church or in being a practicing Christian or whatever the case may be. So it's just like the Graham Hoppy example.

¶306What do you guys think? Well, I was going to say then have you ever heard my sneeze rhetoric? >> No. Tell me. >> I know Tim has.

¶307Tim probably hates it. Uh my sneak people often ask me like when I when I do, hey, what's your reason for atheism or like why should I leave Christian? >> By the way, you look weird in this. >> Oh, you put the thing down. I was looking at the >> U.

¶308So, so they'll ask me and then uh so they want me to defend the world view of like Christianity and I just I'll just say something like along the lines, I sneezed really hard in the mirror. I saw a picture of Jesus and I became a Christian and and that's that was my motivation to do so. Now, why should I leave it? And they're like, well, that's a stupid reason. And I'm like, I agree it's a stupid reason, but it's still not a reason why I'm like wrong or why I should leave it.

¶309And even if my motivation was the fact that I sneezed in the mirror, saw a picture of Jesus, that wouldn't change the fact that if I did wrestle with things like miracles or I wrestled with things like uh the the historical portage model, or if I looked at things like um arisatilian like uh uh um uh what do you call it? Causal power where like that's the reason for God. Like it wouldn't change any of that being a motivating reason that Christianity is true. Even if it was the case that Joe Joe just found it appealing to like kind of switch over because he's like, "Oh yeah, I want to be part of a community with prayer, that still doesn't matter because at the end of the day, either the argument works, the evidence is is is strong, or it's not. His motivation >> might be wrong, but that would not change the data.

¶310that's being brought forward or the reasons why he says something is true, >> right? No, 100%. And that that's why I'm saying like what what people are attempting. >> He's probably meditating. >> It looks like he had a Windows restart.

¶311>> He's he's just he's just experiencing the emptiness of matter right now. >> Um >> No, no, no, no. I was just thinking about like the snot of the sneeze looks like Jesus on a mirror. Is that what you're saying? So I see Jesus.

¶312>> Yeah. I said I tell people I'm like I sneezed on the mirror. I saw Jesus's face and then I became a Christian. Why should I leave Christianity? >> Yeah.

¶313So, so here's the thing. What you're speaking on is there. Oh, man. Where do I want to There's so many places to talk on this. Um there there's two sides to this.

¶314One is yes, you're correct, John, right? Whether or not Joe has motivations and you're and you're correct, too, right? like it is it possible that these motivations won't be operative stuff like that right yes so you're both correct however there's multiple layers to this so the remember what are they trying to accomplish more likely than not Joe is has this particular status in this group and this person with a particular status who is known as intellectual has an epistemic authority blah blah blah blah blah has left the group and gone to be a Christian. They need to do something with that. They need a narrative so that way this isn't a scary thing, right?

¶315And so they're lowering that epistemic status by trying to say that Joe didn't convert just for intellectual reasons. But at that point, nobody ever converts or changes their minds for all intellectual reasons. That is not how humans operate. It is unless you are like zero zero is here >> or and 100 is here >> and you're here on the autism scale. You have existential, you have um social, you have survivalistic, like so many different mechanisms at play that give you different um system one level of thought motivations to change your mind in different places.

¶316You do not change your mind from strictly intellectual place almost ever. >> And you know what then? Sorry, go go go. I I got a I got a friend just just touch on I got a friend who is we're pretty sure is like highly autistic. Um and we've talked about Christianity with him and and I've gone through like the data points.

¶317I'm like I've said to him like if all this data convinced you right would you become a Christian? And he's like no. And I'm like why? He's like because I can't do what I want. And that was that was his motivation.

¶318Very very like analytical individual very much facts and data. um if it was right in his face, he's just like, "No, because I couldn't do what I want." And that was that's his everybody has some sort of like emotional >> Exactly. Um, furthermore, Britt did not listen to Joe's testimony. No, more than likely because part of what she's saying is true and part of what she's saying is false. Because if and me being a person that knows Joe, Joe saw the evidential force continuously accumulate for Christianity.

¶319And then if you listen to his testimony, he says he gets to this point where he says, "Oh no, it might be true." He had motivations for it to not be true. >> Yeah, that's the data. >> But that's a lie. He's just lying to make himself a credible fan. So the so what that tells you is that the intellectual reasons that Joe had were operative at the same time as the emotional existential reasons that Joe had to not be a Catholic.

¶320And both of those things are happening at the same time. But the intellectual reasons were strong enough that Joe kept on pursuing the intellectual reasons in spite of the operative existential motivations to deny Catholicism. >> Exactly. And eventually he finds existential reasons to become a Catholic. And it's the combination of the two that brought him to become a Christian.

¶321>> Yes. Exactly. And at the end of the day, right, like if the whole if the whole thing is just well um can I'm not going to get off that can thing, dude. I don't care about can, bro. I don't I don't I don't care about can.

¶322The whole idea is that our hierarchy of values um uh provide us with a very substantially strong selection pressure for like what worldview we choose. Right. The more the question that I'm more concerned with and I know it's the same thing with you than John is I'm concerned with okay then what should what ought our hierarchy of values be? And what I'm going to say is once we have ran through the argument, those hierarchy of values are going to align with the values that Christ actually gives us and tells us to value. The values actually within Christianity, what the highest good, what is the good, what is human flourishing, etc.

¶323and so forth. And that's what that debate's going to come down to. I actually saw Lamb, he actually said something goated. Dan, if you could pull up that goatated comment real quick from Lamb, bro. It had to do with axiology.

¶324>> Freaking nerds. I'm trying to find. >> Sorry, I wrote a paper about it last night. Um, if you can pull that up real quick. >> That's a lot.

¶325>> You should have the ability to do it. I I don't have the ability. No. >> Uh, >> I don't know. I I don't know where it is, bro.

¶326>> Is that where you argue axiological realism and call them stupid? >> I don't. >> It's all right. It's all right. It's okay.

¶327It's okay. >> Well, okay. just just yeah >> it's all right it's all right there >> so this is what he said right and essentially yes right if the if it all comes down to one can meaning it's permissible for one to be motivated by a subjective hierarchy of values that are existential in nature right then what I want is I'm just going to do the same thing I do with evidence one's subjective degrees of belief should be governed and ruled by one's degree of support okay well in this one right one subjective hierarchy of values that's motivationally operative in the background. >> Is anybody gonna tell us what axiological realism is or we just gonna continue like everybody knows aological real everybody in the chat know what I mean? Is this what you guys do?

¶328>> It's what it's it's that values are objective. Okay. Values and duties are objective. There you go. >> Um >> thank you.

¶329So if that's the case then I want someone's subjective hierarchy of values that are emotionally motivationally operative in the background to track right the actual objective value hierarchy that exists. That's just what I would want right that there is we call this objective list theory. um that there's an objective list of things that humans ought to value if we are reasoning appropriately. And I'm going to say that that right is going to be strong evidence for Christianity. So, um that's the way I would do that.

¶330Than John, what do you think? >> I think uh I think you're a pretty pretty swell individual, Tim. >> Oh, thank you, bro. I um you know man I I you know we've been in this thing for a long time man you know I really appreciate it like it's a beautiful day >> fans playing Far Cry 5 >> no no no I was I was I was messaging him back Joe that's all >> hi Joe >> all right let's do some super chats and call it a night boys >> band is so done >> I'm Dude I'm John I didn't tell tell you this when um cuz I like I I think I got like one of those one day flu things basically going on. >> Mhm.

¶331>> Um my my my silly goose head decided to try to go to the gym anyway and when I jumped on your stream earlier today um you muted me at like just you muted me. Oh yeah, you muted me at like just the right time because I started I had I sprinted to the bathroom to pe And then I went back to doing my squats. >> Did you clean the equipment after? >> No, I puked in the toilet. I made it in time.

¶332>> But did you clean your equipment? >> Oh, yeah. Of course. What? You think I'm a Neanderthal?

¶333>> Yes. >> Fair enough. All I know is John's Denam is Canadian. >> Hey, >> also seriously, why can't anybody spell my name right? Is your new age debate out yet?

¶334Is there any sources you can point to so I can use against shamanism? Who's debating a newager? >> I think you did then. >> No, I was supposed to in that >> you were. >> Yeah, >> man.

¶335That should have happened. >> Well, this particular person wanted to debate something else. Wanted to debate veganism instead of >> stupid beliefs. I'll take >> Oh my gosh. >> They just wasn't interested in that.

¶336Funky, dude. >> Oh, shoot. It's not your channel. My bad. >> Crazy.

¶337>> Damn funky. Damn. We're gonna have to have a conversation. >> John, start crashing out so he sends me more money. Man, >> have to have a conversation.

¶338Funky, this is unacceptable. This is not very good behavior. Right. you if there's certain expectations of you and you've not been meeting those expectations. As a matter of fact, you giving those expectations to other people.

¶339>> That is that is that is pretty gross. Like we we over at Big John Steel Community, we are a family and we operate as a unit. And if families don't have other families, Funky, you have one family and it is us. And I want you to make sure that you realize it is only us. So, >> it's not enough of a crash out.

¶340The atheist cope on that video sustains me in ways food cannot. It's energizing. >> It's actually funny. It's hilarious. It is funny.

¶341>> Normally I get mad at like the atheists coming at Christians for stupid reasons, but I'm actually finding this pretty freaking funny. It is big time. Cope. >> For your demon hunting tool, fan. Thank you.

¶342Thank you. I really need to catch I I I have three tags this year for demons. I heard that demon meat is really tasty. So, I'm talking about deer hunt euphemism. >> I'm I'm just talking about deer hunting.

¶343>> I need a I need a new rifle for deer hunting. That's all. And I'm telling people to donate money so I can afford it. Um, fuzzy little fan peach demon hunter. Thank you so much.

¶344Uh, so only made Joey Joe app Soyance only made Joe appear to convert. Um, even ignoring Catholic specific miracles used to have all the miracle cases documented by the likes of and of and Keenir. Yeah, we have tons of miracles. I mean, if you guys haven't been watching on our uh social media pages, like I haven't touched any of the miracles that can veer towards vindicating any particular denomination. I've been only doing healing miracles.

¶345Um, and I we're we're just pumping out a bunch of um of those cases. So, yeah. Thousand jewels. Thank you for the shekels. Minor correction.

¶346Okconor needs a a Yamcha arc. >> That's crazy. >> Uh John actually ghost writes for me. He's he's like that. Do you do you ghostrite for a lot of apologists?

¶347John, >> you know, I I try to make sure that the good deeds I do are between me and the Lord. So >> talk about that here. Mary Fatima herself affirms the papacy purgatory and immaculate conception. Stop pretending all miracles are equal. Mary is immaculate.

¶348Only the Catholic Church is vindicating. Mary is not rotting. Nobody said anything contrary to that. So >> say stop proting. >> Why did your mic say Mary's not rotting?

¶349>> But my mic do what? >> Your mic volume just went through the roof. >> Ooh. Smash that like button. That like button, please.

¶350Thank you, Ascendants. It's true. You guys need to smash it. Tim, look forward to our call tomorrow where where I'll recount how I had two incredible conversations this week thanks to implementing the skills and knowledge you've taught us. Not sponsored.

¶351Join IP Academy. >> Hey, that's what's up. I'm looking forward to it, man. This is one of the one-on- ones that we got. >> This is our uh group call tomorrow.

¶352Actually, we're doing a live Q&A on the >> Nice, nice, nice. Are people talking about like the meta skills that we because we put out the first week of meta skills? >> Um I think that this is um somebody is actually applying this from what was discussed last call. So that's actually really cool because um a lot of these objections that people give or come with are actually stuff I just help people with on the fly. So I'm glad to see that you're able to implement it right away.

¶353This is awesome. >> Nice. 440 shekels. Thank you alert. goat trophy.

¶354It's probably for John because he's the goat. Mary called herself the immaculate conception at Lords. Miss Mary immaculately conceived. All miracles aren't equal. You know, this is what I was saying in the beginning of the stream.

¶355Like I appreciate the fervor for what you believe. Um, but again, let's not, this is not the place for us to turn things into a denominational dispute. So, this is the super chat I was going to tell you. >> I saw it. >> So, I was like, you know, my hats to my traps.

¶356>> The fact that they got loaves of bread as an image. >> So, Tim, if you're not seeing it, this guy says Than's glutes are too big to wear his hat backwards. See, I told you >> that's true. >> Hypothesis that fan encourages he's like underground behind the scenes like getting people to do this stuff given this data is so high. >> Uh are Catholics required to believe in inherency?

¶357Yes, but with nuance. That's the That's the bird's eye answer. Yes, but with nuance. Um, leaving atheism for Catholicism is like leaving the Yankees to play for the Dodgers. You're just joining the richest team and the most fans from the other teams are going to and most fans from the other teams are going to hate you for not joining theirs.

¶358I'm only laughing because I know OJ. He He's just a funny troll. Um, I was an atheist and so I started having panic attacks thinking about dying. Well, I'm glad that you found the Lord and hopefully you are feeling better. Who wins?

¶359Catholic Joe versus >> that would be a crazy art. Could you imagine? Could you imagine if Alex became Mormon and then the two of them got in a room and debated? That would that would What would atheists do then? >> Yo, that would actually be crazy.

¶360Yeah, we need this matchup actually. >> No, no, we we don't need Alex. That took me out because I remember when Alex had his Mormon arc >> where Alex was like I think Mormonism is like actually really like, you know, I think it actually might uh it might be more plausible than normal Christianity. And I'm like all of us are just sitting here like what the what are you talking about? We were all there when it happened.

¶361H >> Wait, were you there, Tim? >> Yeah, Tim. Well, I'm not talking about just the Jubilee thing. Like after Jubilee, Alex was going >> Yeah, I know. But I know that's what started the arc cuz we all sat down and had dinner and the Mormons bombarded him >> and then after that it just went from, you know, where it went.

¶362>> Yeah. Yeah, that was wild. That just took me out. That was really funny. Justice.

¶363Um, hold on. My headphone died, so I got to put it in the left window. >> Can you hear me? >> Mhm. >> Yes.

¶364>> Oh, of course. I still can't hear you. That's fine. We'll just do this. >> All right.

¶365Talk again. >> Yo. >> Yeah. Again. >> There we go.

¶366All right. Well, that that was the last that was the rest of the super chats. Um, do you guys have any final thoughts? Any comments? Quest?

¶367Like what do you want to say? I'm curious to see what the next six months is going to entail. Um, I have theories. We're going to see if I'm continue to be a prophet. I think, um, the the the rhetoric and the goals of the debate world are all going to start shifting into miracles and specifically Joe Smid in general.

¶368Schmid, how do you say his last name? >> Schmid. Schmid. >> Schmid. Schmid.

¶369Um, I think that is going to be the focus, especially considering whatever he puts out, you guys know I don't, uh, is going to have a big effect. Um, because it is popular. It's what people are talking about. And it's a big shock to the community. Um, and so I think a lot of atheists are also going to start looking at that and prepping for that.

¶370And I'm hopeful because I'm really sick of Dawa and I hope this is going to be a spark that moves us away from that. Um, >> we shall see. >> Honestly, if this um if if this pushes us away from doing da'a and we can actually start focusing on like Christianity and positive evidence for Christianity and all that stuff again. Um, man, dude, I I I'm going to tell Joe, thank you for doing that. >> Yeah, I know.

¶371Legitimately, thank you for for for pushing culture. Yeah, legitimately >> we'll see. I I also don't anticipate that it's going to continue on like forever, but I think I think for a season this is what we're going to see. >> Yeah. I mean, dude, I'm here for it if that happens because um I want people to get more used to the argument for miracles.

¶372Um, the other thing I'm excited about is actually like there will be thoughtful non-Christians that will actually engage in the argument and then the argument for miracles is only going to get better. You know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Like this is why this is how like >> all the best formulations for arguments for God's existence came about. It's because people give good object like dec like decent objections that actually like as Josh Rasmusen would say illuminate the um what does he say?

¶373Shoot um the light of reason right onto these arguments. So I'm super excited about it. >> Somebody else sent it in the super chat real quick. Um I think he missed my super chat but I said John's Denam is Canadian. No, we said that.

¶374We said that. But >> still didn't spell my name right. you know, crazy work. >> Well, how do you spell your name correctly? >> It's on the screen.

¶375You don't >> No, I don't think so. I think you're just making it up. >> Um, okay. Another super chat real quick. Thoughts on Eucharistic miracles?

¶376Um, there are two eucharistic miracles that I think are authentic um or pass the levels of scrutiny that I would want to give. So, all right guys, with that we're going to call the stream. God bless you all. Until next time. You made it to the end of this video, which means this message matters to you.

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