Joe Schmid Converted… But It Doesn’t Matter? The Live Debate

¶1Hey, down. Heat. Heat. What's up everybody? Happy Tuesday, I believe.

¶2I hope everybody's doing good. I just got to my computer. Like I always say, I'm always getting here at the last minute. Let me know how the sound is. Um, I added a couple filters to see if I could knock out some of the background noise and all that good stuff.

¶3trying to get prepared for the next time um I'm on somebody else's live getting that set up correctly because I think my sound quality was kind of bad. Uh my wife was watching it and I heard it and I was like h I don't know if I like that sound quality. Maybe it's just me being picky. But you know possibly just need to invest in a better mic. I think this mic is mostly for like on the- go stuff because at one point in time I was going to do a little bit more vlogging type stuff.

¶4But anyways, welcome back everybody. If you're new here, welcome. This is the place where we throw away our feelings, open our minds, and question our beliefs. That's what we're going to be doing today. Got an interesting topic today.

¶5I didn't want to make my own video or sorry, I didn't want to like record a video on this subject because uh I watched a couple other people make videos and I'm just like I don't think this matters as much as anybody's making it out to be. But there's a couple people that asked if I was going to speak on this and I'll speak on it and we'll kind of go from there. So wait, is it Wednesday? I hope it's not Wednesday and I think it's What day is this? Buck, why you messing with me, man?

¶6As always, I'm Jay. Don't forget to throw away your feelings, open your minds, and question your beliefs. I don't know why my camera is looking crisp today. I swear this camera has a mind of its own. I literally just turned this on and I see how crisp this looks and sometimes I can't get it to look this way.

¶7I I don't know what the hell is going on. Like, it's like it looks crisp as hell, man. You guys get to see all my ugliness. God dang. Got to wipe off the dust on my shirt and stuff now because it's it's like Hey, I want to say on this these aren't this isn't dust.

¶8These are little like shiny things. So if you think this is dusty, this isn't dust. All right. I just want to say that this is like little glitter. It's like glitter all over it.

¶9So just want to say that isn't a bunch of dust on my stuff. All right. Oh crap. I forgot to put some water in there. Um crap.

¶10It might be all right. We'll see. It's got a little incense thing in there. I dropped some incense in there and I don't have You got You're supposed to put some water in it. Maybe my wife will come up here and bring me some water.

¶11But anyways, how you guys doing? I'm Jay. Um, what we'll do is people can still call, but I guess at the beginning what we'll do is I'm going to pull up this video of of this guy named Joe. Um, I will say I only heard of this person from the uh Matt Dahanti and Alex Okconor and him all talking about what evidence is. And so I I literally had never heard of this person before I saw him speaking with Alex O' Conor and they were kind of making fun of Matt a little bit.

¶12Um kind of misrepresenting what he was saying. I I was really actually surprised about Alex doing that. It was a little weird to me. I don't know Alex either, so I probably shouldn't even talk like I don't know him. I maybe I shouldn't call him Alex either.

¶13I don't know either of these people. So, uh, it was just interesting to me because every time I had heard Matt say that, uh, testimony, um, isn't sufficient or good evidence, you know. So, anyways, they were kind of talking about that and that's why I know this guy. And you guys heard me speak before. I already thought he was a Christian.

¶14Really, I really did. I I already thought he was. So when they when I've seen these videos talking about he converted, I'm like, "What?" So I was thinking possibly when I saw that video when they were when Alex Okconor and uh this guy were speaking that he had already converted maybe and he just never told anyone yet. Right. So cuz I think when you're I don't know.

¶15I we'll watch the video, but I'm assuming that he didn't convert the day he made the video and this was maybe something that he planned to tell everybody, right? Not in some sneaky way or anything, so I'm not saying that, but it's just probably something that he planned to make a video on. So, he could have been converted for a month before then. I don't know. Let's watch the video and then we'll see.

¶16I'm going to let people trickle in. Once the numbers stabilize, I will start the video. Uh but before then, let me know how you guys are doing. Let me know where you're watching from. Uh we'll be going for our regular hour unless somebody like yesterday keeps me going.

¶17So I don't know why that turned on. Now my video changed. That's what it is. What was that? What was that?

¶18It literally just changed my whole look of the video. What the heck was that? I told you guys. See, I didn't do that. What?

¶19Like, literally, the quality of the video just went to crap compared to what it looked like. What was that? No, a light came on on the camera. I used my iPhone for this. So, a light came on and then the video quality just went to crap.

¶20Like, I saw that and it's it's not crappy, but it's not as looking as good as it was. That's for sure. Huh? What the hell? That was weird.

¶21I can turn off. See, now it's off, but now it doesn't look the same anymore. Wow, that's weird. That's weird. Maybe it's just time for me not to use my iPhone anymore.

¶22Anybody got any suggestions for uh good cameras? It's possible I should just stop using my iPhone. That was the Holy Spirit. Okay. the Holy Spirit.

¶23All right. Anyways, let's get started. Uh, we'll do call-ins after. It says the video is like 28 minutes, so I don't think it's going to take that long. Let me make sure I have the video up.

¶24Oh, yeah. He's make he he he made he waited to make this video. Good for him, by the way. He's got 134K views. I guess I'm about to be 35.

¶25But like I said, uh let me know what you guys think. I have the little poll right there. Currently, uh we got 60% that say no, 40% say yes. I would like to know like know why you guys think that conversions matter. Uh and I put conversions for a reason.

¶26Did I spell it right? Make sure I spell conversion right. Uh yeah, conversion. I put that for a reason because whether somebody decon converts or converts, I I truly don't think it matters. It just is to me it's more proof of how we all like there's like this follower mentality inside of social creatures.

¶27So it's nothing bad about being a follower. I think in order to be a good leader, you got to be able to follow, too. So, I'm not calling people that follow bad, but the fact that I'm seeing and watching videos of the whole damn uh both more of the Christian side like celebrating like it's that like the celebration is so crazy. So, I'm hoping that I watch this video and I find out that God's real somehow because how can this person just convert off the same information that I already know, right? Like I was like, hold on, did he find out something new?

¶28And if he found out something new, why isn't like the world changing or is it just the same information as before? And I don't know. Anyways, let's watch it. Let's see. Talked long enough.

¶29Uh, let me pull it up here. Let's see. I just converted. All right. Make sure I don't have nothing personal showing.

¶30Don't want y'all seeing where I live or nothing, bro. All right. Here's the video. I'm not going to make it super big screen because not have trying to have people tripping. Why are you watching that?

¶31You can't watch that on stream. All right, how should we do this? Let me scoot myself over. I'm I'm actually kind of upset that my camera just looks worse now. It was looking so fresh.

¶32Like it was it was looking so fresh and now my camera looks kind of crappy now. I wish I would have never seen how it looked. I'm kind of so disappointed. I kind of have OCD about that kind of stuff. Like it's very hard for me and not to try to fix it right now, by the way.

¶33Just want y'all to know. All right, you guys ready? Thumbs up. Let's do it. >> Big news.

¶34God exists. Christ is Lord and he established the Catholic Church. >> Off the bat, it sounds like a joke. I'm not going to lie. It sounds like a joke.

¶35All right, let's go. >> I'm not kidding. >> Catholicism. Well, actually, Joe, you're just a revert, so that's technically misleading. I dude, conversion is a change of heart and mind, and that just happened.

¶36For those of you who don't know me, shame on you. I'm Joe Schmidt. I'm a PhD student in philosophy at Princeton University, and I've been an agnostic. And >> I will say this, I don't know how many people will take this. I don't care about your credentials.

¶37I don't like when people say their credentials before they say something that has nothing to do with their credentials. Like real talk, if we're talking about um building a car and then you tell me you have a a PhD in um medicine, I don't care. Like what are we talking about here? Like I don't care you have a PhD in philosophy. That has nothing to do with God.

¶38Sorry. and public critic of theism and Catholicism for quite some time but earlier this year that >> yaka the volume sorry I'm just going to share my personal journey uh if you want my hours long comprehensive case for Catholicism stay tuned that's coming very soon oh and I also have some cool things later on in the video so stay tuned so I grew up in a devout Catholic household I went to private Catholic school from kindergarten through 12th grade. I frequented the sacraments. I prayed all the time. I was totally into Catholicism.

¶39Everything was like smooth sailing in my faith. In fact, I was like really devout until maybe around like seventh or eighth grade when I had the first wobble. So, in seventh or eighth grade, my Catholic school taught us evolution. And thankfully, Catholics are totally down with science. So, they're like, "Yeah, we can teach you guys evolution." I mean, there's like so much scientific evidence for it.

¶40It's totally >> Catholics are totally down with science. Uh what uh Catholics will change their mind on science once it's proven. Sure. But I'm pretty sure uh Catholics were pretty known for not being happy about science that didn't match up with God. And in recent times, they've evolved and gotten better.

¶41But that's no different than any other uh apologetic type um of things with this religion. As society and as society and secular science gets better, religions follow it. So I don't know about this Catholics being for science type thing cuz I've heard some crazy from Catholics on science. All right, >> compatible with Catholicism. But it did cause me to start wondering like how do I mesh this with my commitments concerning Adam and Eve and Genesis?

¶42Like how do I make sense of that? And bubble didn't last too long because I came across the work of people like Francis Collins and the Bologos Institute defending theistic evolution. And I also started appreciating that you know Genesis although there are historical elements to its genre is something like mythop poetry with some you know theological >> what historical evidence is there to like is he talking about literally the beginning of Genesis or he means like all of Genesis like there's not a lot of historical in Genesis. I don't know. I'm curious if he goes on that >> and historical aspects sprinkled in.

¶43And so I was like, okay, you know, I can I can see accepting evolution together with what Catholicism teaches about Genesis and human origins. The Genesis does not say anything about evolution. Don't know what he's talking about. That's I don't know. That's a lie.

¶44I don't know. He He has a PhD. So I'm just going to say certain things are lies because Genesis does not talk about evolution in any way. So, I'm going to call it a lie. Since he's since he's saying he has a PhD, I'm going to call him out for uh not being honest.

¶45That's a lie. Genesis does not say anything about evolution. >> But then nearing the end of 9th grade, I really started reflecting further on the evolutionary process. And in particular, I reflected on the brutality of it. I mean, for hundreds of millions of years, animals were just like ripping each other to shreds and just suffering and languishing.

¶46And it was just so hard for me to mesh that with belief in an all good, all powerful, all- knowing God. This problem of evolutionary animal suffering just like nod at me for quite some time. Really bothered me. And you know, one thing led to another and soon enough I was just like voraciously consuming debates and content online concerning theism versus atheism and Christianity versus non-Christianity and and whatnot, you know? So I was just like watching William Lane Craig debates and watching uh the new atheists like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett etc etc ride those dirty new atheists ride that was a joke okay after some time the the problems for theism and Christianity just kept mounting and mounting and eventually I lost my faith.

¶47All right, cool. So, we we got his losing his faith. Now, everything that he just said, he should have very good answers for. And this is where I'm going to be very critical because I'm jealous a little bit. If he found out the truth and he's not able to share that truth with me, I'm a little bit jealous because God will not show up for me.

¶48All right? So, I'm I'm putting the cards on the table here. I'm a little bit jealous because I've asked God to show up to me plenty of times and it don't happen. So, I want to see how God showed up to this man right here and if he can share it with me. >> It happened sometime around 10th grade.

¶49I came to conclude that atheism is true. So, God does not exist. And I also thought that naturalism is true. So, you know, at bottom the world is just fundamentally indifferent. You know, there's no fundamental purpose.

¶50There's no fundamental mindedness at bottom. As Richard Dawkins says, it's just blind pitiles indifference. You know, the natural world is all that there is. At the time, I thought that that was just the best explanation of the data. But then in the summer before senior year, I stumbled across this YouTube channel called the worldview design.

¶51And I was just captivated. >> I started watching these videos and I was like, whoa, these are like some new arguments for theism that I've never come across. And the host behind the channel was just like super loving but also incredibly intellectual. >> I wonder what news like I haven't heard a new argument for theism. I don't know.

¶52All the arguments I hear right now are the same arguments that I knew or apologetics that I knew when I was 12. I don't know how old he is. I'm a little bit older. So it's possible that might line up in a way. But there are no new arguments for theism that like I don't know.

¶53These are the same arguments that have been going on before I was born. So, I don't know. >> Rigorous and sophisticated. So, I binged watched all of his videos and wo they just opened my eyes to this new world of like academic theist philosophy. So, the person behind the channel as I came to discover was Dr.

¶54Josh Rasenson. He's a Christian philosopher and at the time he was publishing a book with Alexander Poots called Necessary Existence, defending all these new and interesting contingency arguments for God's existence. And he was just like popularizing and publicizing that cutting edge work in his videos. And so, you know, after I binge watched these videos, I was like, whoa, there's way more to theism than I thought. Um, there are all these new and interesting arguments that seem really forceful to my mind.

¶55But hey, I still got some objections. >> I'm going to be pausing this a lot, so if that gets on y'all nerves, too bad. I get people in my videos saying you stop too much. I'm like, bro, that's why I make it my video. What are you talking about?

¶56Um, damn it. I done lost my train of thought. All right, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me rewind real fast because it's something he said existence and he was just like popularizing and publicizing that cutting edge work in his videos. And so, you know, after I binge watched his videos, I was like, whoa, there's way more to theism than I thought.

¶57>> Got it. way more to theism than I thought. I'm curious what he means by that. I hope he goes deeper, but that's that's something that I was like, wait, way more to theism than I thought. I don't understand what that means.

¶58>> Um, there are all these new and interesting arguments that seem really forceful to my mind, but hey, I still got some objections. So, I reached out to this mysterious person whom I didn't know at the time. I was like, "Dear Dr. Rasing, you know, I I I recently been been binge watching your videos and I was like, I have some objections. Can you help me?

¶59And so then we just had this extensive email correspondence going all throughout my senior year. Uh, and you know, eventually I was like, yeah, there just is a lot more going for theism than I thought. >> And also, you know, just being introduced by a professional philosopher who knew a lot more than me, who was just like utterly mogging me. >> I'm going to say this, too, cuz I it's also something that bugs me. There are no experts on God.

¶60Like I will argue with anybody, PhD, non-PHD, I will argue with you. There are zero experts on God. Zero. Like I'm so serious there. You You usually won't make hear me say some concrete comment like that.

¶61There are zero experts on God. It does not matter who you speak to. They like there are zero experts on God. That's all I'll say. Zero.

¶62It doesn't matter who you're talking to. So if you're talking to somebody like Justin, right? Very, very smart person, knows the Bible very well. He's an expert on the Bible. There is no person on earth ever that has been an expert on God.

¶63Like that doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter who you're speaking to, they're not an expert on God. >> Intellectually just revealed to me that I think I prematurely judged the question of whether God exists. And so as as a result of coming across these new arguments and dialoguing with Josh, I was like, okay, I can no longer maintain my competent naturalism, I think I should suspend judgment on the question of whether God exists. So I should neither believe that God exists nor disbelieve.

¶64And you know, the evidence at the time just seemed to me maybe roughly counterbalance. Maybe it's difficult to tell which way the evidence points. But as a result of all this, I became a kind of subtle agnostic, maybe somewhere around the end of 12th grade. And that state of agnosticism kind of just like state >> I will say this and this isn't to do like I get he's saying his age. Um I think uh scientifically we know that you're not really developed at age 12.

¶65So it's almost like I kind of don't even count as when I was 12 and say I was like a a believer as much because my brain hadn't developed all the way. But um by the time I was into my like early uh late teens, early 20s, I still was a believer in stuff like that. But I don't think at 12 you you're you're capable of knowing these things. And I could be wrong there, but I know science shows us that our brains aren't even close to being developed at 12. ablely persisted all the way up until grad school.

¶66But somewhere around the end of my first year of grad school or maybe the beginning of my second year in grad school, things started to change a bit. I started coming across these like new and interesting arguments for theism that like seemed to me pretty forceful. And I also started losing some objections that I previously had to theistic arguments that I thought failed. So over the course of my first, you know, one or two years in grad school, I started leaning towards theism. I started seeing theism, you know, the view that the fundamental nature of reality is just like pure limitless perfection.

¶67You know, there's this perfect being at the foundation of reality with every perfection to an unlimited extent. I started seeing this view as a you >> I was I was arguing with somebody today. I don't understand why we have the assumption that what we would call God would have to be perfect or good. Just saying. I like we literally just made that up.

¶68We don't have any God to reference. So why does God have to be perfect? Anyways, >> a relatively simple, coherent, non-arbitrary, elegant hypothesis. And not just that, but a hypothesis that offers a unifying explanation of a vast and diverse array of otherwise highly striking data. Data that other hypotheses either have to explain peace meal or do a very poor job at explaining or have to take us through facts.

¶69And so like this kind of meta argument for theism that like on the one hand it seems to be a relatively simple elegant coherent non- arbitrary hypothesis and on the other hand it provides this like wonderfully unifying explanation of a vast and diverse array of >> pretty like strikingly for data. >> I started leaning towards theism. >> It does matter. >> What data are we talking about? Well, there's too much to explain and I explain it all in significant depth in my comprehensive case for Catholicism that's coming out very very soon.

¶70So stay tuned. Stay finely tuned. And come on. That was a good I know he may be joking, but that's weird to me. Um, this is so serious.

¶71Like, if he really found God, right? I don't I don't understand why there's joking. And I know some of y'all are going to be like, "Hey, Jay, you're being too serious." But no, this is a serious thing. You're literally saying you found God. I don't I I I don't I don't know.

¶72Maybe even theists don't realize what they're saying. And maybe I even though I'm a non-believer, I care so much about this more than actually actual believers. If like I guarantee you if tonight I saw God, I'm not making jokes. I'm not lying to y'all. Like if if I see God tonight and I'm coming back to y'all, I'm not making jokes, man.

¶73I'm I'm so serious. I'mma be so serious. I'mma like there's no jokes involved with this. I don't understand it. It's It's weird to me because it makes me believe that people don't really believe like they say they believe.

¶74Like if God is real, I don't think people really understand what that would mean. Like there's no joking. If God is real, there are no jokes. Like Like I don't I don't know. Like, and maybe I'm not.

¶75No, I'm not. Maybe I'm not being No, I'm not being too serious. I'm not being serious enough. If the God that he is saying that he believes in is real, why are you laughing? What's funny?

¶76Like, like, what's what's funny? Like, there are literally billions of people going to hell and burning. What is funny? Like, real talk, what is funny here? I don't get what's funny.

¶77Unless you're not being honest. That's all I got to say unless you're just not being honest. >> But just to give you a glimpse into some of the data that really started pulling on me. I mean, I already had in the background like a decently high confidence that there's some kind of necessary foundation to reality. So, some kind of ultimate reality that could not have failed to exist.

¶78And I at least lean toward that view on the basis of the various contingency arguments that I mentioned earlier on from Alexander Puce and Josh Rasmmanson and various other philosophers like Rob Coons etc. So, I already had that in the background. And then the question was, well, you know, what is this being? Well, maybe let's examine the character of its effect. And when we look at the character of its effect, it's just like utterly saturated with like extremely fortunate coincidences that had to like happen just right for basically anything interesting or valuable to occur in the world.

¶79So, it's striking to begin with that there are any laws of physics at all. But let's suppose there are. Even then, it's pretty surprising that those laws of physics have constants that even have life permitting wages to begin with. I mean, after all, we can imagine a >> it's called winners's biased. If any like that whole, oh, if things were a little bit different, yeah, it would just be different.

¶80And if beings were alive, we we wouldn't be there, but whatever was alive there would think that they're special, too. Like, this is like the oldest thing ever. Yeah, it's winner's biased. >> Hordes of different laws, many of which are much simpler than laws that we actually have, which would preclude basically anything interesting or valuable happening. You know, basically like it is a law that there's a single particle which just like vibes for all of eternity.

¶81you're not going to get anything interesting or particularly valuable in such a world. But we didn't get a world like that. Instead, the law structures that we have are at least compatible with life. And not only that, but these law structures, the form of these laws, they contain certain constants or fixed values. And those fixed values need to fall within exceedingly narrow ranges in order for life or basically anything interesting to develop.

¶82So like none of this is complet. And then even then, we weren't done. In addition to that, the laws of nature actually match the contents of the universe so as to result in temporal evolution. And then even when you get temporal evolution, it's surprising that conscious subjects evolve because we can imagine a world which is physically just like ours, but where consciousness doesn't exist. And so it's actually quite striking that consciousness exists.

¶83And not only does consciousness >> No, you cannot imagine imagine a world where consciousness doesn't exist. He's he's he's totally wrong here. No one can imagine a world where consciousness consciousness doesn't exist because even thinking about that world is saying that consciousness exists in that world right like like like he doesn't even understand what he's saying Mr. PhD like like no that's not true like you can you can't imagine just like you can't imagine what nothing is right like even saying the word nothing isn't nothing right so it's like no we have no conception of what non-conciousness looks like at all he doesn't know that I think that's he's false or he's false he's wrong sorry >> exist but it's paired very fortuitously with the physical world our mental lives are strikingly orderly coherent and intelligible and rational given our physical states, functioning and behavior. And if you think about like the vast horde of conceivable ways of pairing up conscious states with physical states, only an exceedingly tiny portion of those actually lead to consciousness involving goods like rational agency and meaningful relationships and virtue and enjoyment and aesthetic experience and so on.

¶84And then we have moral. >> What's a relationship? Everything has a relationship. Just because things don't have relationships like we try to say like that doesn't mean like a tree has a relationship with the ground, right? Like so it's like what what does he mean by relationship?

¶85It's not something that's special. It is just what happens when existence is, right? Like that is like there's just relationships going on. So why are we acting like human relationship is any special? No, there's just relationships going on.

¶86Period. So, I'm not liking this guys. Sorry. >> And it's really difficult to see how that could be the case under naturalism because the moral facts don't explain our moral judgments under naturalism. And then we also have opioid knowledge and that bunch of different people are experiencing God.

¶87They have religious experiences and that beauty is just saturating the world. And so, I just was reflecting on all these different pieces of data and all the coincidences that I'd have to stack one on top of another in order to remain an atheist. And that was just it was getting difficult. But I still didn't go all the way to theism. >> Uh this is kind of going towards uh what I was saying.

¶88I remember I said that I thought he already believed and this is making sense. He's always had this little struggle and I'll I'll take his word for it, right? I'm not going to say I'm not going to speak for somebody. He said he didn't believe. Cool.

¶89Whatever. Uh but he obviously was on the edge like the whole time, right? He's saying it. And that's why when I heard him speak, he sounded like a believer. Like he really did.

¶90He sounded like he was a believer. That's what I thought. >> Why? Well, because I had all these barriers to theism. I had the problem of evil and various other difficulties and arguments against theism that pulled on my mind and those still just seemed so strong to me.

¶91But then in my second year of grad school, I started coming across overwhelming evidence for miraculous phenomena. I mean, it started with certain people making videos about like Our Lady of Zetune, you know, this apparition at top a Coptic Orthodox Church that literally like hundreds of thousands of people saw in addition to tons of medically documented healing miracles associated with it. Another thing that kickstarted my journey here was that my friend Cameron Bertusi was interviewing a bunch of different like professional psychiatrists and deliverance ministers and exorcists and various other people who are on the periphery of deliverance ministry concerning demonic phenomena and manifestations that they've witnessed with their own eyes. And like here we're talking about like super recent in totally perceptually conducive circumstances with sane people sometimes in the context of like multiple or even dozens of witnesses and like things that it seems like it's really hard to be mistaken about which are like these you know complex multimodal experience. There are tons of things that we see that aren't there.

¶92We know this like like we literally know this. There are ways of even um forcing that upon somebody if you can mess with their brain a little bit. You can see stuff. We know you can see stuff that's not there. I don't know if this guy did any research.

¶93I don't like there's still more to go to this video, but he's just saying That's all he's saying. He's just saying And this is why I got on him at the beginning for bringing up PhD. Why are you bringing up a PhD? cuz you're not sounding like a PhD. Like you're not you're not you're not showing me like the research that you've done and why this is actually true.

¶94You're just making statements >> where like you know the temperature of the room would just like instantaneously drop to freezing such that the person could literally see their breath and then become scorching hot such that everyone in the room just starts like sweating and testifying to things like oh you know like a few days ago I literally saw with my own eyes and multiple people present also saw it and they told me afterwards where like multiple things are just flying across the room of their own accord and various other like instantaneous supernatural changes in facial structure or eyes or various other things like levitation and so on. I didn't actually believe these things for the longest time. I thought it was actually pretty implausible. But Cameron just kept pushing me. He was like, "Joe, watch the video.

¶95What's your explanation of this person's testimony?" You know, I'd like give these flailing kind of implausible naturalistic explanations concerning which I have no independent evidence. And you know, basically I'm like having to divine from the armchair that these people are just like lying straight to their teeth. And then also like all the other deliverance ministers are in it and these various psychiatrists are in it. And then like also, you know, like the the government reports that we have to some of these phenomena are also like that the people who testified in those are just mistaken and then like dozens of other >> Nope. He doesn't have to say any of that because there are there is proof that people have experiences that we know aren't real, but they're real to the person, right?

¶96And when I say they're not real, I mean they're not real in the fact that you can't show it to somebody else, but they are real to the person. I don't know why that's such a troubling thing for him to understand. Mr. PhD PhD remember this is a PhD just saying Mr. PhD can't understand that there are pe there are experiences people have that cannot be true Mr.

¶97PhD I'm only saying this because he brought it up guys he brought up Mr. PhD Mr. PhD can't understand that people can see things and experience things that we would say aren't real. Okay, PhD. >> It's I was starting to shift in my seat.

¶98I was starting to become uncomfortable. And that was just like the first of my worries because over the course of my second and third year of grad school, I was just utterly inundated with overwhelming evidence for miraculous phenomena. And like the caliber of evidence that we're talking about here is not like, oh, I prayed and my headache got better. It's like, okay, okay, Susie, like, I'm glad your headache got better, but I'm not not quite sure that's a miracle. Instead, we're talking videos, photographs, blinded laboratory analyses, X-rays, you name it, we got >> X-rays.

¶99Is he going to say the Shroud of Torin is real? If this dude says the Shroud of Torin is real, I will cut this video off. I will not believe this guy anymore. I promise. And if y'all if y'all can get this this PhD guy to come talk to me, do it.

¶100Like if he says the shroud of Torin is real or some Swear to God. >> It's like we got blinded laboratory analysis saying, "Yeah, this is suffering myocardial tissue and what's that doing in a host that a Catholic priest just prayed over?" Like if you see that, what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do when you see that? It's like, oh no. And for some of these healing miracles, it's like we got documentation to like complete instantaneous permanent remission of advanced multiple sclerosis in combination with an uncolapsed lung, redefinition of calf muscles, an instantaneous removal of blindness at the same time.

¶101Oh, all in connection by the way with like a complex hallucination. Oh, and I know actually like a religious experience of like a booming voice saying, "Get up my child and walk." Like that's the level of evidence that we're talking about. And like for some of the canonization healing miracles for which medical documentation is required, it's like we got pictures of the dude beforehand with his severe bilateral congenital club foot. We have pictures from his childhood. You can see them and he's like we have testimonies from all like his friends and whatnot and his teachers like to the effect that he'd always have to like walk on the sides of his ankles and whatnot.

¶102And we've got pictures of him throughout childhood with that. Oh, and then he prays to one of these Catholic saints. And then afterwards, both of his legs are straight and completely healed. It's like, okay, this is insane. Oh, and it's like we've got x-rays afterwards and pictures afterwards.

¶103Okay, what's going on here? And then you just go through all these other cases and it's just insane. And I just can't believe the conspiracy that I would have to posit in order to explain them all away. It just seems like the universe was conspiring to make it look like God exists. God is performing certain miracles and not just miracles, but miracles that seem to vindicate distinctive Catholic doctrines.

¶104We've got, for instance, very well evidenceed eucharistic miracles. We've got extremely well- evidence Marian apparitions like Fatima and Lords and Zetun where like Mary is like granting requests for conversion to Catholicism. She's saying get the Holy Father to consecrate Russia outside of his jurisdiction by the way to my immaculate heart thereby vindicating the immaculate conception which only Catholics dogmatize. And of course you know she's like as I said granting petitions to convert people to Catholicism. She's like telling people to pray the rosary.

¶105Pray the rosary. So she's like advancing the cause of praying the rosary which of course meditates on mysteries like the assumption and the coronation of Mary. Oh and of course it's like it's Mary herself, the mother of God appearing to people. So like it's just shot through with Catholic vindicatory implications and there are all sorts of reasons why naturalistic explanations aren't good and why demonic explanations aren't good. And that's just Fatma.

¶106Like in lures we've got Mary telling St. Bernardet Subaru like or however it is like we don't know. Hey, you want the baguette? The quason. Anyway, she's literally saying to St.

¶107>> I don't know, guys. I don't know. I don't know. I'll finish watching it. Like, we'll finish watching it, but I like this ain't Sorry.

¶108Not sorry. Let me stop saying sorry. I'm not sorry. This ain't I I don't know. I would like to talk to him.

¶109I don't believe him. Unless there's Unless there's about to be more evidence. I I don't know. I'm not big enough to make him talk to me, but I don't know. I don't know if like I don't even know how to say it.

¶110Like I don't know. I have to believe him, but I don't believe the reasons he are he is saying. Like I don't believe that cuz he's not saying any reasons why he started to believe these things. These are all the things that I've heard as well except I asked questions. Excuse me.

¶111I'm sorry. I asked questions about those things and asked for evidence about those things. He's just he's just stating them again. He's not saying like, "Hey, this is why this used to be false to me and now it's correct." All I've heard is him saying that I still don't understand these things and how they happen. So, I couldn't no longer say, and I think somebody put this in the chat, I could no longer say I don't know.

¶112That's that's that's what I'm hearing. He hasn't provided any evidence to why he all of a sudden believed. Like zero evidence. There's zero evidence. I mean, we still got we still got a little bit, but all right, man.

¶113Let's go. I am the Immaculate Conception. I mean, how much clearer could you possibly get? And then God just goes out of his way to perform like the most unprecedented string of like concentrated medically documented healing miracles in all of history at Lords. Just insane.

¶114Or you know, if I want to be I want to be French l Oh, and God's also going like out of his way on multiple occasions on multiple different continents and in multiple different centuries. He's going out of his way to like make sure that when like a Catholic priest Oh, and it only seems to be Catholic priest. When a Catholic priest prays over some bread, it turns, oh my goodness, they're suffering myocardial tissue afterwards. And like we've got we got like scientific documentation of this and like blinded laboratories and like blinded scientists who look at these things and we also have the pictures of them that we can compare and you can you can even ask AI to look at the pictures and it's like oh yeah like seems like mus muscular skeletal or some kind of like muscular tissue. It's like hm and of course you know the miracle at hand simulates like precisely the onlogical change that Catholics believe in.

¶115And there are so many other things that I'm leaving out but like finally >> no you're not saying anything in >> February of this year. >> Not saying anything. sit down with Ethan Muse for like 4 hours to talk about the overwhelming evidence behind St. Padre Peio's mystical charisms. Like we have we have doctors who issue reports like immediately afterwards where they're like, "Yeah, I literally" and they're describing in like tremendous detail their observations like like, "Yeah, he literally palpated his hands and his feet." And like he's like describing like, "Yeah, I felt a palpable void in between his hands and it was separated by thin membranes on both sides." Oh, and another doctor on an earlier case.

¶116Oh, by the way, um I think we had enough of the poll. Uh we are going to take calls. I actually want to talk to people about this one. I'm not going to lie. This aggravates me a little bit.

¶117Um so, let me put up the I want to finish this video. So, if you join, you're going to have to wait. But I would like to talk to anybody that wants to talk about this. If you're if you agree with me, it's going to be a quick one. But if you I want to talk to people that think what he's saying means something.

¶118So click that link. You're going to be waiting until the end of the video. But if you want to come talk to me about this, I would love it. So yeah, I I don't like this at all. If I was a believer, I might not like this, by the way.

¶119patient was like, "Yeah, I examined it and there it was like a complete hole going through his entire hand such that I could literally read things on the other side of the hand if I like if I put his hand up against it." So, it's like, "Okay, what's going on?" Oh, and then he has these for like five decades long with a bunch of other people seeing them. We have pictures of them. We have videos of them. Thousand, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people saw these over the course of those 50 years. Oh, and then of you like we've got pictures on the day of his death where he has no scars despite having deep wounds for five decades.

¶120And of course, like the ideology and the character of these wounds is just totally incompatible with various naturalistic explanations that you might profer. And then that's just the stigmata. And it's like we got so many medically documented healing miracles with him involving like the regeneration of eyes and also like this odor of sanctity. So like where he sometimes where he goes like >> this is a PhD guy. Remember PhDs matter by the way?

¶121>> It would come in like waves. this like massive beautiful fragrance that would like fill rooms and that would like stay with some of his relics for like years on end. Oh, and also like dozens of times doctors are taking his temperature and it's like giving naturalistically inexplicable readings. So like on one of the occasions a doctor has a mercury thermometer, takes his temperature under his armpit with a mercury thermometer, it literally shatters. So then they get a professional bath thermometer and then take his temperature with it and then it reads 125 degrees.

¶122I mean it's just all your organs would just utterly fail at that point. I could go on and on and there are lots of reasons why all these have like Catholic distinctive vindicatory implications where like it seems like God is going out of his way to put his stamp of approval on distinctive Catholic doctrines. My broader point is that God is going out of his way instead of saving the millions of babies that die. God is going out of his way instead of feeding all the starving people. Like this is literally disappointing to me, guys.

¶123I I don't know. I'm actually disappointed. It's bugging me a little bit. I wish we could put people on lie detectors. I wish lie detectors were real.

¶124I'd get on one, too. I wish I wish there was really a way of telling if people are lying. Not calling them a liar. I just wish there was a way. This whole video is disturbing.

¶125Like, it's disturbing to me and it's giving me a very bad feeling. Like, I don't know. Like, a nasty feeling like watching an infomercial. I don't know, man. I don't like this.

¶126>> Over the course of my second and third year of grad school, I just start getting inundated with evidence for miracles firstly, but also miracles that seem to vindicate distinctively Catholic doctrines. And not just that, but just as theism offered just this like wonderfully unifying explanation of like a vast and diverse array of otherwise pretty striking and coincidental data, I started to see Catholicism in the same light. It started to seem to me that Catholicism just unifyingly explains all this miraculous evidence, the pattern of miracles, the individual miracles. And it also would make it not particularly surprising that I might be going systematically astray with respect to some of my moral intuitions or some my intuitions against hell or various other things like that. So I started to see Catholicism in much the same way that I saw theism.

¶127Of course, I still had lots of objections to Catholicism. It was so hard to get through all of them, you know? Like I had objections to hell and I had objections to the Bible and I had objections to the moral teachings of the church and I I magisterial objections and whatnot. But just over the course of yeah those two or so years I just started looking into the objections further and and they just started to wayne. And so in addition, >> I started looking into the objections further.

¶128Yet in 18 minutes and 56 seconds, this gentleman has not presented one. I don't know what to say. One ounce of evidence. Not one ounce of evidence has been spoken. Not one.

¶129to like reading like theology and philosophy and you know magisteriology. In addition to all of that I watch lots of YouTube videos but also I would just sit down for like hours on end with my my good friend Ethan Muse and we would just go back and forth and back and forth on these various objections and for the most part he was just like systematically coming out on top. So I was like oh man what's going on here? Um no but like and his responses to my objections were actually quite powerful. I mean, ultimately it was the the 4-hour conversation with Ethan Muse on Padre Pio.

¶130>> You know what? I'd like to talk to Ethan Muse, whoever that is. Come talk to me. Like, come talk to me since, you know, like you converted this person, I guess. Yeah.

¶131Come talk to me. I don't know who the hell that is, by the way. Ethan Muse. This is stupid, guys. I say guys as humans, by the way.

¶132Or maybe I shouldn't use guys, I guess. But this is stupid. I don't understand why people are making a big deal out of this. I don't understand. No, let me not say that.

¶133I don't understand why people are making a big deal about this. Let me just stick to there. Let's read some of the comments. I don't know if I even want to watch the video. I don't feel like I don't even think there's any point of watching the rest of it.

¶134So, let's just like read some comments. Uh, congratulations, Joe. Being a convert myself, I know it's a huge relief to finally be able to talk about this. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say in upcoming videos. What?

¶135All right. Whatever. Super pumped for you. I think we are back. Okay, I get that.

¶136That's a joke. Got it. Got it. Um, bingo cards. Congratulations, Tom Holland.

¶137That's funny. Uh, one American pope and this happens. See guys, and I know you guys, this is how serious I take this stuff, by the way. I don't think people really believe in God like they think they do. Like if God is real, there is no joking.

¶138Like there's no joke. Like I don't I don't know if these people really I don't even know what to say. Like what's funny? It's like I'm laughing, but it's laughter after like like what what would be funny? I don't know anybody really.

¶139I I don't know. I I probably shouldn't say that, but I don't know, man. I gotta think about this. I really going to have to start thinking. I got to think about this.

¶140Like, the way people treat God is like so weird to me. And I don't even believe in this But like, everybody treats God like a joke. So, it makes me think they don't believe because if it's a joke, it's not real. I guarantee you if I believed in God, I'm not joking. Like, I'm not making jokes.

¶141And when I believed in God, I wasn't making jokes. This shit's not supposed to be funny. I It's like this is just a game to people. just a game. They think it's like a social game.

¶142They're just having fun. Haha. People People going to hell. Haha. We're We're all going to make it, guys.

¶143Haha. Everybody's going to hell. Haha. Like what is I don't know. This is disgusting to me.

¶144Nasty. It's nasty. I'm going to have to think about this, guys. I don't know. I'm going have to think about this one.

¶145I might make some video on this, but this is disgusting to me. I'm not even a believer. That's what's crazy. This is disgusting to me. It's disgusting to me.

¶146This is totally disgusting to me. It's disgusting. I don't know what to say. Do y'all want to finish watching this? Like, I really feel sickened by this.

¶147know that convinced me intellectually that Catholicism is true. I just said to myself, like, listen, I can't imagine if I died right now and I saw Christ, I can't imagine having to tell him what I'd have to tell him by my life as a non-atholic. And I was just not willing to bet my soul on just like not only a single conspiracy, but just like a conspiracy of conspiracies that are just like conspiring to make it look as though Catholicism is true. And so the day after that call with Ethan Muse, I did my examination of conscience, covering a decade of my life away from the faith. And then the following day, I did my general confession.

¶148Praise God. Now, I've been giving you the intellectual. Praise God. Just praise God. Oh God, so good.

¶149Sorry. Whatever. I would love to talk to this guy. I don't know. I know.

¶150Don't know. All right. Anyways, ah, screw this person. Sorry, guys. Um, anybody want to come chat?

¶151I'm not watching the rest of this. I'm not We almost watched all of it. I'm not I'm not watching the rest of this crap. This is crap. I'm not going to be as kind as some of the other people because I take this way too serious.

¶152I watched some other videos where they're trying to be kind. Nope. Not going to be kind. Not like that. I mean, I'm not going to like talk like crazy, but nope.

¶153Don't don't don't trust this guy at all. I don't trust him. Sorry. Maybe. Oh, now we can see myself.

¶154He can come talk to me if he wants, but nope. Don't trust him. Whatever. All right. So, who wants to come have a chat?

¶155If you agree with this man, if you get if you think he gave some good reasons, go ahead and step up to the plate. We only have I don't know, little bit longer. But, yep, you heard my opinion. Very quick opinion. This is also like um just kind of watching some of the other people make videos on this.

¶156I didn't watch this video um and I was like I'm not going to make a video on this because I doubt this person is going to say anything that is profound. And maybe the thing that bugged me the most is that he wanted to throw out his PhD at the very beginning. Like that mattered and that he was going to start showing proof of what he believed. So it makes me iffy on him completely. He says, "I'm so and so.

¶157I'm a PhD." and then literally went along for 30 I we didn't go the whole round for 20 minutes just saying claims and this is the guy that was getting on Matt Deahanti for saying that um this is adding up now this literally just added up for me in my brain you know why he was getting on Matt for saying testimony isn't uh evidence He just told on himself. I know I'm a little slow there, but he literally just That's why he was doing this. That's why he made the video saying that testimony is evidence because he already knew this. He already knew what he was going to do. He already had converted before that video because that video was only like a month ago or a month or two ago, maybe.

¶158He already he already knew what he was going to do. So, of course, he was getting on people saying that testimony is evidence. Oh my gosh. I wish I was big enough for this dude to come talk to me. By the way, I would I would love to put this dude on the hot seat.

¶159Like, if I I would love to put him on the hot seat. Love to cuz yeah, this is just ridiculous. No, no, but I mean like the way he presented it, like what Matt was saying was so ridiculous. And Matt from my like I'm not speaking for Matt uh Dante, but it's just like it was like um testimony is the weakest form of evidence. That's what I usually would hear and that's what I agree with.

¶160But yeah, whatever, man. All right. We got anybody that wants to come chat about this or should we go ahead and end it? might give me time to work on a video actually. And I still need to figure out why the heck my camera was looking so crisp and then it went to just non crisp.

¶161Like my camera was looking legit, man. And then it just went to crap. Uh I made reference to the map video back and forth and spun. Yeah, like I said, I'm a little late, but I recognized it because I made a video about him and Alex doing the mad thing before, and now it adds up. Yeah, thanks, Mr.

¶162Peabody. This seems very fishy to me. Even if you're a believer, by the way, you have to recognize fishiness. So, just just be cautious no matter what. This seems very fishy.

¶163And that's all I got to say on that. You guys are having a big ass argument. All right, I'm going to invite you guys to argue on the stage. I see you guys all arguing. Who Who wants to come up on stage and argue about what you're arguing about in chat?

¶164Let's Let's do it. I'm offering the stage up for two people. I'll be the moderator and you guys can come hash it out on stage. Let's go. Who wants it?

¶165Let's go. You're typing this much and you give me an excuse, I'mma time you out. cuz you're everybody's typing a lot. So, don't you dare talk about not coming up on stage and you doing all this typing. I'm about to time some people out.

¶166I'm kind of kidding. But who who wants to step up on stage cuz you guys are chatting up like a like a I don't even know. Chatting up like some chipper birds. Hey, what up Q? What up?

¶167Who who who stepping up on stage here because y'all are typing like crazy. Let's go. The links The link's right there. I'm going to go get some orange juice and I'll be right back. If I don't see two people on stage, I'm going to be very disappointed because y'all are in that chat typing up a storm.

¶168Hey, don't go to the Discord though. Go to the video ninja. Go to video ninja for me. I need two people on stage. All you guys typing in chat arguing about evolution, come up on stage.

¶169I'll be right back. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

¶170N. All right, we actually got two people in here. So, give me a second. I'mma get it set up. No yelling.

¶171Everybody don't talk over each other and then we we will get started here. Uh we got we already done with the Joe Smith thing or Schmidt. Like I said, I gave my two cents. I would love to talk to that guy. I would definitely put him on the hot seat, but he probably would never talk to somebody like me.

¶172All right. So, we got two people arguing in chat. So, we think we got them on stage. So, let's let's see what the hell's going on. All right.

¶173Hello. Oh, hold up. Hello. Hello. Yo.

¶174>> All right. What uh let me know first what the uh debate is about. Um, I don't know if the other person disagrees with me, but I'm I'm pate. So, >> yeah. Let's see if we we we're on the same side or we're on the opposite side.

¶175>> Wait, wait, hold on. Are y'all on the same side? Cuz then this is pointless. >> No, let's let's establish that first. I'm I'm a Christian.

¶176>> Okay. I'm not. So, >> okay. All right. >> All right.

¶177Cool. So, what are we discussing so I can make sure everybody stays on topic? >> Yeah. I don't know. It's up to him what he wants to discuss.

¶178Do you want to talk about like ethics or something? >> No, I'm not good on that, bro. I'm just a believer. >> Okay. So, why do you believe?

¶179>> Because I I can believe. >> That doesn't tell. You're just telling me that you believe, but I'm asking why. >> Yeah, because I can. >> But is that a good justification to believe in something?

¶180>> It is for me. >> I feel like y'all were arguing about something specific in chat, guys. >> Well, I don't know if it's the same person. came in. I just came in.

¶181>> Oh, got it. Okay. >> I just came in and I heard you challenge in the the chat. So, I was like, "Yeah." >> Uh, okay. So, all right.

¶182Let's start. I think that was a fair question. And to be fair, uh, can you not just say you believe because >> we need a we need a little bit more than that, brother. >> That's kind of a week. >> I was being lazy.

¶183I was being lazy with my eyes. But yeah, I believe because um I'm a true believer of the Christian faith. I believe that there is life after death. I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. >> I I get that.

¶184But wait, I'm asking for like a reason why you believe those things. Don't just tell me what you believe. Tell me why >> because I believe it. Isn't that a good enough? Because I read it.

¶185>> It's not. >> All right. Hold on. Hold on. Let's let him finish and then you you can ask some follow-ups.

¶186Is that all you have? It's just I just believe it because I'll be honest with you that's gonna be >> why I'm tell I'm telling you I read the book right and I I believe it. >> All right. What other books have you read? >> Well, I read mostly um some of the gospel.

¶187Most >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Real This is like a legit question because you said that's your reason. Whatever What other books have you read? Like just name some books that aren't the Bible.

¶188>> Oh, it's just the Bible. >> Oh, that Wow. I still haven't heard a reason. I just heard what you believe. But that's different than why you believe.

¶189>> You You're asking me why I believe. Cuz I believe there Yes. I believe there's a there's there's life after death. There's eternal life after death. >> Well, that's again, you're telling me what you believe, but you're not telling me why you believe those things.

¶190>> I don't know if I can give you I don't know if I have an answer for you. >> Then I don't know. >> I know I believe. I know why I believe. I just can't play it to you why I believe.

¶191>> Can you tell us why you don't believe uh Voldemort is real? >> Well, because JK Rowling wrote him. >> He's a movie. He's a book. >> He's a what?

¶192>> He's a character in the book. >> No. No. You said somebody wrote him. Like what about that person?

¶193>> Yeah, she's an author. >> Oh. Oh. So authors mean not real or what? >> Well, if he made it up, >> then it's not real.

¶194>> God is also a character in a book. >> And can you definitively give me evidence that he's not real? >> Well, I just told you you're I'm using your logic. You said that Voldemort isn't real because he's a character in a book. >> So just because the author, >> right, but just by using that logic, right?

¶195We know man wrote the Bible, right? And God is a character in a book. >> So by your logic, you shouldn't believe in your God. >> Well, there's Well, her books are more, you know, stories. Well, like um what's the word?

¶196Is it is it a novel what she writes? Right. >> So, like to me it sounds like you're switching the goal a little bit now. Now you're saying it's not about the book character. You're saying >> though, calm down.

¶197I I kind of like I I I match energy. So if you go up, I'm going to go up with you. So >> don't don't don't worry. I'll do the I'll do the moderating moderating. >> I'm not That's just how I am.

¶198>> Yeah. I'm just telling you if you go up, if I hear your voice go, I'mma go up with you. I'm not trying to go up. >> I think I just got a crappy mic, so I apologize. >> That's cool.

¶199Let's go. >> All right. Um Yeah, you can finish what you're trying to say because I'm I'm trying to That's a good question, though. >> No, I'm just saying so at first you said, you know, I my first question is why do you believe You said, "Well, because I can." And then after pressing you a little more, you know, he asked, "Why don't you believe in Voldemort?" You said, "Well, he's a he's a character in a book." After I point out that God is also a character in a book, you guys around and you say, "Well, now we're I know one book is real and one book isn't." Well, now the burden of proof is on you to show that the Bible is factual and not just made up. >> Well, okay.

¶200So, I get what you're saying. So why I believe in the Bible, why I believe because I believe Jesus is real, right? I believe Jesus is real. I believe he he he came down, you know, he he's God in human form. He came down and, you know, he w he teach he taught many people.

¶201He healed many people and he resurrected. >> Yeah, that's what I believe him. I that's what I believe. >> I get what you believe in, but I'm asking the why. because I believe it's real.

¶202>> Yeah. Why? >> I don't know. It's just a personal thing. >> Like, how do you know that is that is that a better question?

¶203>> Um, it's it's a personal thing for me. Are have you been a Christian? Let me ask you. Have you Are you Christian or have you been a Christian, converted or something like that? >> When I was really young, I was, but I'm not anymore.

¶204So, I don't know if you really know about Well, I don't know, man. Um, it's a personal thing for me, right? See, um, reading about, you know, I was a Christian. My my whole family is Christian. They're all Catholic.

¶205I don't follow the Catholic church, but I really wasn't a believer that time. In those days, I was really like just doing my own thing, you know, just I'm just like a shell, just going through the motions. It wasn't until some things, some personal things in my life that I really believed, right? And only that I really believe in the gospel. I really believe in what's being taught in the in the Bible.

¶206>> But I don't really have an answer like because it to me right now it's like your world view versus my world view which is going to clash. You know, >> we don't we don't really know that yet because I haven't really said anything of what I believe. >> Okay. Well, that's what what I believe and that's why I believe it. >> But you you just told me what you believe.

¶207You believe that? >> No, I told you because there was I think it was real. I believe it's it's real. >> Okay, so maybe this maybe this real fast. Um if he were to tell you that he doesn't believe just because.

¶208Would you understand why that might not give you enough information? >> Like if he was like, "Hey, I just don't believe in God just because." Like, wouldn't you ask more questions? Right. >> Are you asking me? >> Yeah.

¶209Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't you ask him more questions if he said, "I don't believe in Jesus just because." >> Not really. >> Oh, >> because it's a it's Yeah. It's It's a faith thing.

¶210You have to have faith. You know, Jesus said, you know, "Blessed are those who believe and have not yet sinned by seen." >> What else in your life do you treat that way that you don't care about uh evidence? Well, I'm not saying there's no evidence. There's evidence in my life is just to great great. That's that's what we're asking.

¶211All right. That's what he's asking. He's asking for the evidence. That's it. >> Yeah.

¶212>> There you go. Go ahead. I'll let you talk now. Give the evidence. >> My evidence?

¶213I don't know if if I can. You'll accept my evidence. >> That part doesn't matter. We're just looking for evidence. >> Like, don't poison the well and and act like I won't accept it.

¶214just tell me and then we'll we'll look it over. >> Well, my evidence is my personal experience um been through bad stuff. >> Like I was the you know like I told you my family Christian, right? >> Yeah. >> They're all Christian.

¶215I really wasn't into it. Really didn't believe it. I was just going through the motions. I was doing all this stuff with the world, you know, sitting here and there there. And then there was a point in my life where um I don't know.

¶216It's it's something I can't explain to you. It's just something that that that you know that made me pick up the Bible and started to find myself and yeah, I started reading the Bible and that's what I'm saying. It might not be evidence to you, but it is evidence to me. >> I still Yeah, I'm still not hearing any kind of reason besides like you're just telling me what happened. >> I I think that's reason enough for me.

¶217So, like if I read the Quran, if I just stumbled upon the Quran, read it, believed it, and you said, "Hey, why do you believe what the Quran says?" And I just say, "Just cause because >> that's that's cool. >> That would be that would be totally fine with you." >> Yes, that's cool. Because I I don't want I'm not going to force you to believe not believe or to believe what I believe. And you know what I'm saying? I'm not going to if that's what you believe, that's cool.

¶218>> That's what I mean. >> You know, one one second real fast. Um, I don't think you would agree with that if we were if I had you um being accused of a crime and you're on a we got a jury and I and I'm the I'm the prosecutor and I just say exactly what you said. Hey guys, this is what I believe. Send him to jail because I just believe it.

¶219You do you think that would be a fair trial if they sent you to jail and that's all I said as the prosecutor? >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What? If if you are if >> I don't think I don't think it's the same thing >> it is because if I commit if I could accuse you of a crime and my only evidence is I believe you did it. Do you think you should go to jail?

¶220>> Well, well then that means that you're putting my faith on the stand like you're questioning my beliefs. >> Oh, uh yeah, actually yes. Okay. Yeah, I think you might be understanding here. And so I'm asking for evidence for that.

¶221You wouldn't be okay with somebody just saying that, hey, he did it and that's it. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not the same thing because if it's in court, I got to prove myself. >> Well, I got >> I was Yeah. If it's my belief, I I I don't know what to tell you.

¶222>> All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Like for instance, if I was Christian, right, and I thought you were a Muslim, I would think based on the Bible that you were going to hell. Okay, then that's a different thing.

¶223Now we're talking about him. >> So So do you think like if uh as a non-believer or Muslim like do you think I would go to hell? >> Um yes, I think you would go to hell. >> So So saying um it's okay that you don't believe in what I believe is kind of like saying I don't care if you burn forever. >> Well, it it only it only matters you're affected by it, right?

¶224>> No, no, no, no, no. Saying saying that you don't care is equivalent to saying yeah I don't care if you burn forever. Like if you actually cared about me you would try to convince me of your belief. >> Well see then now now we're going to go to my world view. In my world view I cannot I cannot bring you to my faith.

¶225Only God can bring what I can do is give you the word. >> So God decides who goes to hell and who doesn't. >> God reveals himself to you. >> Exactly. So he decides to reveal himself to some people and not to others.

¶226>> Yeah. I think so. So he whenever he sees somebody going to hell, he just signs off on it and says, "Yep, I'm going to torture them forever." No thought of their own. >> No. No.

¶227Well, it depends on you. It depends on you. See, according to >> No, no, you just said it depended on God. >> Yes. God God No.

¶228God reveals himself to you. >> Yeah. So that's his choice. >> Yes. But it also depends on you because God Let me try to make this um >> Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me.

¶229Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't make sense. But it does to me. It makes sense. Perfect sense. >> But it doesn't make sense.

¶230>> It it does, but it does because remember, I'm going to admit this. I'm going to concede. God is a contradiction. God is a walking contradiction. God is a illogical.

¶231>> Then he no, it just means that we cannot perceive his existence. Right? We don't have the methodology to perceive his existence. >> There's no good reason to believe in it. >> No.

¶232Because if we we we you know the shifting burden of proof if if you're on my position, you got to prove that God does doesn't exist. >> No, it does. I don't I'm just not convinced. I don't know if there is or there isn't. >> That's why you guys hold the negative position.

¶233>> That's why agnostics and atheists, they hold the negative position. >> No, they do not. You were false. >> They're much more easier to defend because if I can play that same game with you, I can say, "Hey, I can't prove you. I cannot give you evidence, you know, for God.

¶234But can you give me evidence that he does not exist? >> I I don't say that he doesn't exist. >> You see, that's what I'm saying. >> I say to believe that he does. That's completely different.

¶235>> What if he building a straw man? >> What if he really wants to know the truth though? And like what if his life, like he said, what if his life literally depends on you convincing him? How unfair is that that you're not helping him? like >> all I can do is give you the word.

¶236I can give you the word the word of God that's in the Bible. And I'm pretty >> I'm pretty sure you can read the Bible, right? >> And I'm not a I'm not an expert. >> I'm don't know if it makes sense to me though. >> Remember, like I said, like I said, only God can can bring you to the faith.

¶237>> So, if God to save me, then I'm waiting. >> No, you have to be humble. That's the first thing. I'm waiting. He made humble.

¶238See, you're not humble. >> You know, just like just like God did to Pharaoh, just like you're not humble enough for God to reveal himself to you. Well, that's not my fault if that's how he made me. >> That's I'm I don't know what to tell you, buddy. But just like Just like God did to the Pharaoh, how how God humbled the Pharaoh because the Pharaoh >> he hardened his heart.

¶239>> All right. >> Yeah. He took away the Pharaoh's free will. >> Yeah. Exactly.

¶240Okay. No, no, no, no, no. He healed the Pharaoh in what what was already in the Pharaoh's heart. The Pharaoh hardened his heart and God healed him in that faith. >> No, the Pharaoh hardened the heart to God.

¶241God will >> All right, cool. Hold on, guys. Hold on. Uh, now that we have another subject, we're talking about God hardening the heart of Pharaoh. Who wants to speak first?

¶242I want to let you guys both speak for real. So, >> I'll let him speak. I want him to talk about his worldview. >> Okay. Okay.

¶243Well, you have to ask him a question then, just to be real. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh, do you think can you prove that God doesn't exist? >> No.

¶244>> Can you give me evidence? >> No. >> He He said no. >> Okay. Well, I don't know where to go from here.

¶245>> All right. I guess you can answer the question. >> Well, no. He just gave you an honest answer. So, now he's going to ask you a question.

¶246We hope for a answer. >> Yeah. Again, I I I'm an atheist agnostic. I don't believe in a God because I don't think we can know, right? I don't care.

¶247>> I don't I'm not saying there is or there isn't. I'm saying I don't think we currently have a good reason to think that there is. That's why I'm an atheist. >> Okay, I get that. I get that.

¶248>> So, I don't go like cuz like I go to the church down the street and I don't go in there and just say, "Hey, you guys are all wrong." No, I say, "How do you guys know what you know?" That's completely different. Okay. >> And so I think it's fair for me to say, okay, if you've claimed that you have the truth, I I I'm asking how do you know that? >> I don't know that. I don't know that.

¶249>> Okay. Then why do you believe it? >> I don't know because I don't know. It's It's a >> I don't know either. >> Yeah.

¶250I I don't know how to explain it to you. I just believe. Do you think it's cool for God to allow both of you guys to have that like feeling like the way like I agree he's being honest. I think you're being honest too. And the fact that you can't even explain why you believe you just believe.

¶251He is saying he just doesn't believe because there's not enough evidence. Also, is that fair of God to do that? >> Yeah. Why is he playing hide and seek with me? Well, God is he reveals himself like let's um let's go back to what Jesus said.

¶252Remember the the his disciple asked him why do you speak in parables? Because God hides the truth from those who you know who who who should like who ought not to know the truth but only those who will know the truth is revealed to them. That's why he speaks it in parables. If you know like if you know if you know you know >> sorry are you a Calvinist? >> Uh I'm not sure.

¶253No I don't think so. What is that? What is that? >> Well there's different like denominations of Christian right? Like you got you got Protestant you got Catholic.

¶254And they all have different interpretations of the Bible. But the Calvinist position is that like God is the one who is solely responsible for picking and choosing who is saved and who isn't. It it it doesn't matter what what we do or think. Like we are all faded for either heaven or hell. >> It's kind of what you said.

¶255You said uh God has to reveal himself and that's it. Right. It's it's a it's like if you really believe that, you're kind of a a Calvinist cuz you're you're saying that we don't have an option. God God either reveals himself or he doesn't. >> Yeah.

¶256Uh can you guys hear me? >> Yeah. Go ahead, brother. Go ahead. >> Yeah.

¶257Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm getting a call right now. I gotta go. I'm sorry.

¶258>> Okay, buddy. Thank you, though. Thank you. All right. Bye.

¶259>> All right. >> Who was the person you were talking to in chat? I sent that person to come, man. >> So, I don't think they Well, like there's like Muhammad and truth versus lies and stuff, >> man. Hold on.

¶260>> He The person was saying I was mean or something, but I don't >> No, no, I don't think I don't I don't think you were mean. I think even he wasn't mean either. He was just like, "Hold on, hold on, bro. I think I feel like you're being aggressive and I don't want to get aggressive. I liked how y'all handled it, so I don't think there was a problem.

¶261>> Yeah, I probably have like a machine gun question style. I need to work on that. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Muhammad's not going to come up here.

¶262Who Who else was it? Muhammad. Muhammad is like patal. They just talk. >> I'll talk to any uh any Christian.

¶263So, I'm ready. Do we have any Christians ready to come on board? And we won't double team. I I'll I'll be as quiet as I can. Anybody?

¶264Anybody? >> What do you think about the Joe Schmid while we're waiting? >> Me? I mean, there's this thing like um called the hindsight bias where it's like, you know, we we we think about things after the fact and in a different light. And so like a part of me wants to be like ah no he was always like a Christian or something but I feel like that's like a kind of a bias towards me you know like if I'm being honest like he maybe he did convert but I still think his video like his intro felt very pranky.

¶265Like I I remember watching like 20 like like um 80% through and I thought I still thought it was a prank especially with how he started the video. He was like, >> "I'm glad you said that because I was like, uh, yeah, I was trying to hold back from saying that. Keep going, though. Keep going." >> It just felt like The Onion, you know? >> Yeah.

¶266Yeah. I agree with you. And I was just like, and I think that's when I realized I didn't think he was making a joke video. It made it disgusting to me in a way. And maybe I'm being exaggerated.

¶267I don't know. Maybe I'm in my feelings a little bit. I don't know. and I'll think about it and I'll I'll tell the truth after I get over whatever. I just felt like it gave me a very 3:00 a.m.

¶268infomercial vibe. >> Yeah. >> Like it it really did. And like you said, I think like you know he as an atheist and agnostic or whatever he was saying um you know he has a lot of problems like you know the problem of evil, the problem of suffering or gratuitous suffering and stuff like this and at least give me a hint to like what changed your mind. >> Yes.

¶269He didn't say that. Yes. >> And and I'm like okay I get that you you you said you're going to make a video about it and I feel like this video is going to get torn to shreds. whatever he makes is going to get torn to shreds because people are already like going through his his old stuff. And it's funny because like all the all the atheists are going through his old stuff and being like listen like you know there were signs, right?

¶270And all the Christians are going to be like woo he you know like we got one you know he God found him. And I just find it very interesting that you know like he says he's a revert but oh what luck what luck that he was raised in the correct religion. >> Yeah. What? Look, >> he picked the exact one he was born into.

¶271>> He just got It's like why didn't why didn't he find I don't know Mormon. The Mormon Bible is convincing, you know? I don't know. >> And man, hey, Mormonism be going off. That be like I don't like I don't know why people don't think that's the truth then because Mormonism be growing, bro.

¶272>> Mormonism got a lot more recent evidence, you know, for it. I mean, I don't buy it. >> Well, yeah. I don't buy it either. But I meant like if we're talking about how fast things grow, Mormonism is still kicking it.

¶273>> Like there's a lot of Mormons coming out there. And now that they allow black people Oh, no. >> Sorry. I had to I gota I got to throw in that subtle racism. Not even subtle, by the way.

¶274Uh oh, Anthony. Hey, Anthony, if you want to join, you can join, but I don't like having three agreeers. But >> I want another I want another Christian. And I'll try not to machine because like I try to listen. >> But if your answer is just well just because I I believe just because >> I'm going I feel like you're being really dishonest to me.

¶275>> That's fair. >> Why did you get up on stage to debate just to tell me you'd believe it? Just because >> I I to be fair to him, he's called me before. I think he thought he was going to talk to me. >> Oh, well I think back what I said.

¶276I don't mean to be mean like >> Yeah. Yeah. Just just just for you too. Like because I don't think you're trying to be mean either. So I want to be fair to both of you guys.

¶277He's called me before and we spoke before and I think he was just excited to talk to me. >> Oh, he probably jumped in at the wrong time. He was asking all these questions. >> He literally admitted it at the beginning, but I was kind of talking and I confused everybody. >> I feel bad now.

¶278>> Yeah. Yeah. So you're good. But he he he got into it. I I feel like he was fine.

¶279Yeah, he's fine. Uh, hey, uh, Anthony, if you want to jump in. Oh, no. He had a problem. Hey, uh, I'm going to mute you for a second, uh, Pyro, and then let Anthony talk real fast.

¶280Hey, what's up, brother? You there? >> Uh, hi. Hi. Can you hear me?

¶281>> Yeah. Yeah, I can hear you. We're waiting on somebody to jump into the other one. I know you uh the video ninja wasn't working for you, but I wanted to let you speak real fast. >> Oh, sorry.

¶282Let me just turn turn the uh Okay. Yeah. Um yeah, it's just uh so I've been following this and u a few of the uh people in the sort of the counter apologetic scene have responded have made response videos um uh like midvisionnostic informant um mind shift recently as well um and a few others modern atheism um I I think like one I recommend a lot is Neil Neil Sentlink informant did a very good uh Gnostic Informant did a very good like uh take down of um like a debunking of some of these miracles um that that Joe is apparently endorsing you know wholeheartedly. Um I'm I'm ex Catholic myself actually. So um you know I'm quite familiar with all these miracle claims and things like that.

¶283Uh it's it's a thing like Can you hear me? >> Yeah, I hear you. Go ahead. I'm sorry I'm quiet. I'm just letting you talk.

¶284>> No worries. Okay. Um yeah, it's um I I I I mean Okay. Actually, stepping back for a second, like the the first thing that kind of makes me a bit suspicious is that he kind of had this all lined up. I mean, I saw this uh this blog post by another like recent Catholic convert apparently motivated by Joe um earlier this year um Caleb Jackson and he posted about like how Joe was um you know working on this conversion thing from from like April or at least April >> and that's what I was hearing.

¶285Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. Um I mean I I kind I know I know of him and like I know that he was kind of like an agnostic mainly.

¶286I mean he was he was a good counter apologist in the sense of like at least you know at least debunking that um or or criticizing like that whole timistic um you know metaphysics and everything like that. >> Mh. >> Uh but like not so much on the on the scriptural side and that sort of thing or or miracles or like that you know the scientific stuff and all that. Um it is more like you know philosophy of religion stuff or or just you know philosophy metaphysics that sort of thing. Um it's just like I don't know the the way he's kind of working towards it and he already had these podcast appearances with like Matt Frad and and others you know kind of lined up in advance and had this you know this tie like Catholic ties apparently >> ready to go.

¶287>> Yep. >> I don't know. I don't I I don't know what to make of that. It's like it's very well managed. >> And I don't mean to cut you off, but that's where where I was saying I'm getting a disgusting feeling.

¶288And even if I was a believer, I hoped other believers get a disgusting feeling because it it literally felt like just taking advantage of something. It really did to me. I would love to talk to him. I don't think I would ever be able to. Like I said, my channel's not big enough to make a dent, but it's just like I would love to put him in the hot seat.

¶289Like, I really would. I would question the out of him. I really would. I I would question him so hard. And I don't know, man.

¶290What What I don't know. Keep going, though. I'm sorry. like even even the you know the way he framed like the way he titled his video and and the uh and the post and everything like he wrote embrace Rome that that is such a larer thing to say. I mean that's like you know these these uh you know these um lords uh these Catholic lords with uh you know whatever some kind of medieval Catholic art on their profile pictures >> uh laring you know uh traditional Latin mass stuff and all that it's it's a very lar thing to say.

¶291Um, yeah. I I It's just It all comes across as like very very kind of meme meme and and media optimized. >> Yeah. >> If you know what I mean. >> No, no, I get it.

¶292And that's the vibe I got. I was hoping that I wasn't the only one. And it's just like cuz I watched Myth Vision, too. And then I watched um God dang, what's his name? His name's Brandon, but I forget his channel.

¶293Do you ever watch him? He's bald. >> Mind shift. >> Mind shift. Thank you.

¶294Thank you. Yeah. >> So, I watched him and I was like, you know what? Like I like I like Brandon a lot. He's kind of like my vibe where he's kind of just chill.

¶295>> Uh, so it's just like I watched him and I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to talk about this." I don't I don't know him by the way, but yeah, I watch his stuff. >> Like I know that at least at least getting into the the the reasons he claims converted him. Um Neil Neil of Gnostic Informant has done a pretty good job of like at least demolishing that whole like St. Maria Goreti thing. >> Um the uh like all these other like you know miracles of levitation and exorcism and all this stuff.

¶296I mean the thing is like all of these have come through they're all transmitted to us in Catholic heavy societies by the Catholic Church with and and these relics are you know all all held in Catholic control. They're not like just given out for you know critical examination and stuff like that. Um the accounts and everything all come through the Catholic church. They won't like they won't they won't do like hey the exercised >> Anthony I'm so sorry I just had somebody else call in. I got to make I got to make sure.

¶297Thanks brother. >> I'm happy to to fill in time. >> Thank Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

¶298All right. >> No worries. Yeah. Okay. Bye.

¶299>> Hey. Hello. Welcome. >> Hello. >> How you doing?

¶300>> Can you hear me? Is it good? How are you? >> I'm good. I can hear you.

¶301Uh, let me let me turn you up a little bit. Um, we have two people here. I want to make sure. Did you want to speak with me or were you calling to speak to Pyro? >> Oh, you I guess.

¶302>> Okay. Me? Okay, that's that's fine. Um, hey Pyro, just a second just in case. >> I'll just >> All right.

¶303Thank you. All right. Um, what did what did you have for me? Oh, you asked me to call in because I was the one uh who said I have encountered demons. >> Oh, you encountered Oh, okay.

¶304Hold on real fast because I'm not going to I'm not going to front here. The sound is pretty bad. Is there any way we can like get to a quieter place? I would I really do want to talk to you though. >> Hold on.

¶305Okay, it got quieter. Can you say something again? Hopefully you can fix it cuz I I I want to hear your demon story for real. And it could be because you're in a car. I'll be honest.

¶306I know somebody else just stepped in. I'm going to mute you. So, hold on. I'm going to give uh our first person a chance. So, just stay here and then uh Oh, wait.

¶307You called in another one. Oh, hold up. You're the same person. Hello. How did you call in twice?

¶308You got two phones? Like, can you hear me? I got two phones. Uh, I can't I Hold on. Hold on.

¶309Hold on. Maybe. Hold up. It says you're muted. Can you check your mute?

¶310All right, muted. Yeah, I'm sorry. I can't hear you. I heard you on the other one, but I can't hear you. I would say this.

¶311uh close out of everything and then call back on the phone or on the app you want to call back on. So I would say hang up. I'm gonna hang you up and then you call back on one because right now we have the the Unless you have Discord. Do you have Discord? We is hiding here.

¶312Yeah, let's hang you up. Okay. It's not even working to hang up people. Yeah. Dang.

¶313I thought we had somebody. All right. Hopefully you can fix your stuff. I'll I'll wait on you cuz I definitely want to hear anybody that says they seen demons before. So, >> yeah, that would be some crazy.

¶314>> I have a story. Let me while we're waiting. So, as you guys know that I am a tester. I test everything that's like it's probably bad. It's probably bad.

¶315I will test anything. So at a very low point in my life that I wanted to know if God was real so bad that I looked up like how do you conjure the devil? No joke, not lying. This is a real story. So I started researching uh like I would rather I I wanted to know this so bad by the way.

¶316I would I would have talked to the devil just to know the god was real. And I I forgot the demon that it said cuz I looked up this is funny that it's on Google by the way. This is so stupid. Uh you can look up, hey, what's the easiest demon to summon? Like legit real And it's like it came up with this demon and then it gives you these these incantations or whatever the word is to summon the demon.

¶317And I tried it and then I had a dream and it's supposed to be this demon that's on this horse and then I heard horse hooves. That's the closest thing that I ever got to of finding anything supernatural. By the way, I just want to be I'm be honest with you guys about everything. Like I had a dream and I was dreaming by the way. 100% I was dreaming.

¶318I know that because I woke up and I used to lucid dream a lot and I used I like you can actually train yourself to lucid dream. So uh I did my little wake up thing. You wake up and then you go back to sleep and then you have lucid dreams and then that's when I I heard the horse hooves in my room. By the way, that's my story and like I said I don't believe it proves anything but all right. Hold on.

¶319Let's see if this person is working. Hello. >> Hello. >> Oh, I hear you. >> Oh, I hear you good.

¶320Now, now we can go. >> Okay. So, I have experienced demons and it was more than that. Um, you said lucid dream is you can train yourself to lucid dream. Uh, this I never wanted these dreams because I was getting and it wasn't even a dream.

¶321It was in physical real visions that I saw demons actually raping me. Um, so there's no way I would ever want to experience that. Um, >> I feel like we skipped a bit. Can you tell me like the setup? >> Oh, the setup.

¶322>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was going on? Was it Was it night time, daytime, all that kind of good stuff?

¶323Oh, I've had it during night time uh and daytime. And uh I even uh called out to Jesus and I saw Jesus uh come and he like waved his like he waved his arm and then I saw the demon actually tremble and he fled. >> What did Jesus look like? >> What? >> What did Jesus look like?

¶324>> I only saw his hands. >> Well, yeah, sure. What does the hand look like? >> Like a hand? >> Yeah.

¶325Color. Shape. Not shape. Sorry. Color.

¶326A lot of veins. Like what? What? Like what the hand look like? >> Oh, it was just black.

¶327Like more of like a shadow. >> Oh, okay. So, you saw a shadow. Okay. Were you uh also like paralyzed?

¶328>> No. >> Okay. So, you can move around. You saw a shadow. You are in bed standing up.

¶329>> In bed. >> Okay. So, you're in bed. Uh, what time is it? >> And I've also had visions.

¶330>> Yeah. Yeah. I just want to go one one at a one one at a time. Uh, like were you uh was it like 3:00 a.m. 2:00 a.m.

¶33110 a.m. 10 p.m.? >> Oh, I couldn't tell you I couldn't tell you the time. >> Yeah, but Okay. Was it was it was it bedtime or No, like you you get what I'm saying, right?

¶332I like I said different. It's t uh I had it was over it's been over six years. It was over like six years. >> So it's hard to remember? >> No, it was like every night.

¶333Over six years. >> Okay. So cool. Every night. Uh can you tell me your routine before you went to bed those nights or No.

¶334>> Uh I took a shower and went to bed. >> Cool. No, I'm just asking like I'm making sure like you're trying to go to bed, you're going to sleep. All right, cool. So, but you're saying the dreams they weren't dreams, right?

¶335>> No, because I also >> had experience water in my face and it felt like they were trying to waterboard me. Um, you I don't know if you ever Well, I guess you would never experience waterboarding, but I could feel the water. Uh they were taking the water and they were actually uh making it so I couldn't breathe and it was water um in my face >> and you woke up. Was there water? >> No, I wasn't.

¶336I wasn't asleep. >> Okay. Well, I'm sorry. Whenever you stopped seeing what you were seeing, was there water on your face? >> No.

¶337>> Okay. Did So, do you get the reason my question? No. >> Okay, cool. No, I'm glad you're being honest.

¶338Like, I'm not trying to be funny here. So, the reason I'm asking is because uh I'm trying to distinguish between like something that I would see like say I walked in the room and I just saw you uh reacting to something. Would I have seen anything or would I have thought you were just laying there? Does that make sense? Like as an outside person looking at you, would I have seen water on your face?

¶339You're you're cutting out too. So if you're talking, it might you might be a bad spot. Yeah, you're still cutting out. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. You're you're you're cutting out pretty bad.

¶340I think you might just be in a bad signal area. >> You hear me? I I hear you, but it's not good enough. I'll be honest. It looks like you got in a parking garage or something, right?

¶341I can see the background. It's like maybe maybe it's just a bad area. Yeah, I can't hear you. Uh, all I can say is call me back. Okay.

¶342I don't want to waste your time either, but you're welcome to call me back, but I can't hear you at all. Like, zero. So, you can hang up and try to call again. We'll give it one more try. Uh, but like I said, I don't want to waste your time.

¶343So, go ahead and hang up and try to call again if you want. Yeah. Sorry, can't hear you. Let me reconnect your mic. I don't know.

¶344No, can't hear you. I'm going to mute you so you know. Uh, some reason I can't hang you up, but All right. That kind of stinks. I would have liked to hear the story.

¶345Um, let's see here. Definitely been some interesting Hopefully you hear me because I'm sorry I can't hear you at all. So, if you want to hang up and try again, we'll give you one more try cuz it sounds like you're still talking, but I can't hear you at all. Or it looks like I should say. All right.

¶346Um, anybody else want to come chat? Pyro got no uh challengers. Nobody Nobody wanted to come speak to to Pyro. I'm I'm still wondering why like somebody was in chat talking up a storm. That's the only reason I said this, by the way, is because you you and Pyro, whoever you were, were like talking like crazy.

¶347And then now when you get the opportunity to share your to share your stuff. >> I'm here. I'm I'm waiting for any challengers. >> Like man, I ain't going to lie, guys. If I was y'all, I would have called in.

¶348That's me. That's why I make my own damn channel is because I like to talk to people. So I was like, I'm just I'm just going to make my own damn channel. It's like >> Well, it's like it's like I was I was saying it's like um if you honestly believe that like someone's soul is on the line, ain't that like the most important thing to do to try and save them. >> Mhm.

¶349That was me. And I think I got on a lot of my friends nerves. I lost I lost a lot of friends both ways. When I was a believer, I lost friends. And then when I was a non-believer, I lost friends because I'm the type of person that I literally just seek the truth.

¶350I don't like that's it. I want to know the truth so bad. It's like it's so bad. All right, she's back. All right, let's see.

¶351Hello. Hello. We got we got one more caller, so I'm going to give you one chance. You're muted, so go ahead and unmute. And we're going to give you one more shot.

¶352And I got somebody else that wants to talk. All right. So, go ahead. Let's see. Yeah.

¶353I'm so sorry, sweetie. It's It's pretty bad. You might need to uh if you go back to my channel and I'm going to post a Discord link. So, try Discord and I'm going to let this other person hop in. Okay.

¶354I'm so sorry, but it's just not working. Uh, hello sir in the blue shirt. Can you hear me? Hello. Hello.

¶355>> Hello. >> I don't hear anything. >> Blue shirt and glasses. >> Yes. Can you hear me now?

¶356>> There you go. Yeah, we hear you. We hear you. >> Yeah, >> you you hear me now? >> Yep, you're good.

¶357>> Okay. Yeah. So, I just hear you say that you are seeking the truth, right? >> Oh, yeah. I am.

¶358You got the truth. >> Well, you know when we are talking about ultimate reality, nobody has access to that. So we cannot know with absolute certainty if there is a god or not. All we can do is using abductive reasoning to the best explanation. So that's the question.

¶359What explains our existence best? Uh the only reason uh one second, sorry. The only reason I don't like the uh deductive reasoning is that in order to do deductive reasoning, you have to be capable of understanding everything that you're stating. And we're talking about something that probably is ununderst understandable, if that's a phrase. So any reasoning that you give me is going to be from a perspective of something that could never know if a god exists.

¶360Does that make sense? >> Yeah. I didn't say deductive reasoning. I said abductive reasoning, which is >> inference to the best explanation. >> Abductive reasoning.

¶361Okay. Give me your give me your spiel. Let's see. Well, actually before that I say why I believe that God is a superior explanation to the no god hypothesis. I'm really curious and would like to know how you moved.

¶362I hear you say that you were before a theist. I don't know if it was a Christian or whatever religion that you >> you were a Christian. Okay. So do you have better explanations today? Are you an atheist or an agnostic?

¶363>> Uh, agnostic, I would say. >> Well, this is interesting because normally when I press atheists hard to give uh any reasonable or plausible explanation in regards of origins, then they resort to well, I don't know. Okay, that is very common. And I mean if you do this show then I guess you have a goal right and you you declare yourself an agnostic. So basically you have nothing to offer.

¶364So I'm a Christian for 42 years. >> Let's let me let me let me let me let me say the the offer that I have is um just give you like the point of what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. That's a fair question to ask. Um, I just want everyone to admit that we have no clue if there is a God or not. Can I get you to admit that?

¶365>> Well, I would maybe frame it a little bit different in the way that >> No, no, no, no. I'm I'm asking a question exactly for the reason I'm asking it. Could you admit that you really have no clue if there's a God or not? I profoundly disagree with that. >> Then I this is why I do this because people have such a problem with admitting things that they cannot prove.

¶366>> As I said in the beginning, we do not need proof to come to informed plausible conclusions. >> Something if if something's plausible, that does not mean that it's true, right? >> Yes. Okay. So that doesn't matter to me.

¶367The fact that something could be plausible is irrelevant to me. I literally don't care. That's why I said I care about the truth only. So if you cannot prove the truth to me, one second. If you cannot prove the truth to me, the only thing I would like to hear from you is that I do not know if what I believe is true.

¶368And then me and you could have a very honest conversation. If you cannot admit that to me, I do not think we can have an honest conversation. So I would like to hear from you. Could you prove God to me? Yes or no?

¶369>> No. >> Okay. So with that, you should your next answer should be equal to that. Do does anyone know that God exists and can they prove it? Should be no.

¶370So it means you don't know if what you believe is true. Can I get you to say that? Yes. >> Okay, cool. Now, I think you just discredited what you had just said before.

¶371>> So, you did admit. Yes, you did because you just said you don't know. You don't know. And that's okay. Like, I'm okay with that.

¶372Nobody knows. And I'm against anyone that says they do know. That is the point of why I do what I do. Because we have like to me and I'm going to let you speak in a second. I'm I'm going to preach for a second for you, okay?

¶373and then I'm going to let you preach to me. My point in this whole endeavor that I'm doing is that we have way bigger problems in society on this whole this whole crap about people uh believing something that they can't prove and then trying to push it on to other people. The reason that a lot of Christians don't like to admit that they really can't prove it and they don't know why what they believe is what they believe is because they're scared of that. And it it it took me a little bit for you to get you to say it, but at least you said it. So, I'm not going to say you're exactly like that, but even the push back you gave me knowing that the answer is that you can't prove it is to me the problem with our society.

¶374It is okay to admit that you don't have any good reason for believing what you believe. People do that all the time. >> I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Can you prove it?

¶375>> That's an entirely different thing. So you are mixing up things. I think excellent reasons to to to believe. >> Can you believe? >> Can you prove it?

¶376Can you prove it? >> Okay. So, can I talk now? >> Can you prove it? >> I I listen to you.

¶377>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I No, I promise you I'm going to let you talk.

¶378I I really do promise you. Uh, can you prove it? >> Okay. So, >> can Yes or no? Can you prove it?

¶379>> Wow. No. Are you letting me speak or shall I fry it away? >> Either we can have a dialogue. >> I I promise I promise you you're talking to a person that really will let you continue.

¶380>> So don't don't like I really I know you've seen other shows. This isn't it. I will really let you speak. I just need you to answer that question. Can you prove what you believe?

¶381Didn't I answer it to you? >> And it's no. Okay, cool. So, go ahead. Thank you.

¶382>> So, why do you repeat your question? >> I I wanted to be clear. I want to make sure I understand you. >> Oh, oh, oh. Okay.

¶383So, now >> go ahead. >> Are you good now? Can I speak now or not? >> Calm down and go ahead just to hear you monologue. You speaking all the time interrupting me at the first sentence or not.

¶384>> Nobody else jump in. >> You are you are jumping me. >> Nobody nobody else. No actually I was actually actually you're wrong because I was actually uh stopping somebody else by the way. So it wasn't you.

¶385>> So anyways Oh he left. Anyways next person. Okay. Anyways. All right.

¶386If he left that's fine. Next person. What you got, bro? >> Oh, hey. On you.

¶387>> Yeah. Yeah. You're It's you now. Go ahead. >> How you doing, bro?

¶388>> I'm good. I literally was about to let that guy speak, so he just lost his opportunity. I think he's he doesn't he doesn't know where he's at. He He literally could have spoke for a while, by the way. Anyways, your turn.

¶389What you got, man? I feel you. >> I just wanted to uh talk on the Joe Smith point. Oh, >> okay. Yeah.

¶390Cool. Cool. What you got? >> Yeah. Um I Well, I was curious about just your your uh I'm not sure if you have seen the the testimony video or anything.

¶391>> Yeah, we were watching it just now. Yeah, we were. >> What are your thoughts? >> Uh I thought it was disgusting. >> You thought it was disgusting?

¶392>> Yeah, legit. I thought it was like an infomercial. Somebody selling something. >> That's kind of crazy. >> Go ahead.

¶393I just answered you. I'm gonna let you talk. I That's That's what I thought. You asked me. That's what What gave you that impression?

¶394>> Um the very first part at the beginning where I was like, "Wait, is this a joke?" I don't think God is a joke. If God is if God is real, there is there are no jokes. And and when somebody is making jokes about finding God, I think it's disgusting. Like he he's literally making jokes in his video about maybe the most important thing that any person could ever know. That's disgusting to me.

¶395>> I think that's an interesting uh I think that's an interesting view a way to view it because he's also coming from a worldview where it wasn't something that was plausible or real. >> Yeah. Well, it was it was plausible to him because he grew up in it. >> I mean, not plausible, but that wasn't real to him. So, uh it's kind of understandable that he would that he would take a more uh a more blasze approach at least initially to uh to the presentation of what he found.

¶396Even if it's like >> So, can I ask you something real fast? >> How that doesn't discredit necessarily how serious he how serious he takes it. >> Let me let me ask you this because I think God like God is so weird to people. It's like so weird to me. And this is why it's weird to me.

¶397I'm not even a believer and I think I take this more serious than believers do. Um, if we're talking about somebody getting raped, do we joke? >> I I would not. No. Right.

¶398That's my point. It This is too serious to joke about. So when he's joking about it, I think it's disgusting. There are no jokes to this. Like if if the god the if the Catholic god that he believes in is real, literally billions of people are going to go burn in hell.

¶399You and we joke about that. Screw that guy. I'm not even a believer and I'm saying screw that guy. This is this is not a joke. This is not a joke, man.

¶400None of this is a joke. None of it is. And I I think I am way more serious than half of these people that are believers. This is not a joke. Like, and people joke about this I'm so tired of it, bro.

¶401Like, people joke about God. Like, it's like, it's a joke. It makes me think they don't even freaking believe. It's not meant Okay, so it's not meant to be uh even delivered in that in that sense. >> Then he shouldn't have did it, bro.

¶402He shouldn't have did it. >> He was I I think that even you being uh like even the ser the most serious uh moments in your life, if you were to able to tell about it, you would most >> I I I never when I believed, I never joked about God. Never. It was not It was not a joke. >> Okay.

¶403So, there are certain parts of a testimony that you can deliver in ways that are >> It's not a joke, man. You're never going to convince me that God is a joke. It's not a joke. >> I don't believe God is a joke. >> Okay.

¶404So, then stop stop condoning what he did. Stop condoning what he did. He made it a joke. It's not funny. Like, really, stop condoning what he did, brother.

¶405Stop. You're a believer. That's cool. I'm not. That's But why am I defending you?

¶406Why am I defending your beliefs? It's not a joke. And people stop like like Christians need to stop making it a joke. Like the way they're sitting there praising him and making it all these like they're literally just like everybody else. That's what's disgusting to me.

¶407They're making money. They're making money off of these videos, brother. And I'm not even a believer. I'm not even a believer and they're making money off of these videos. >> What I'm say uh what I'm saying is he uh he's not treating it like a joke.

¶408Just by just because he uh just because he may deliver it in a in such a manner to make jokes doesn't mean he makes it a joke. I think those are two different things. >> We just said you wouldn't joke about rape like that. Is is God is God lesser than rape? >> What do you mean?

¶409You're you're you're taking two different things. >> I'm taking two serious things. I think both are serious. >> Yeah, but you're I would >> go ahead. Go ahead.

¶410I'll let you speak because I spoke a little bit. >> Yeah, you're you're conflating two uh two things. Uh Joe Schmidt knows not only uh his audience. >> Does audience uh sorry I am going to cut you off there. Is the audience important or God important?

¶411Which one? >> God. Uh God is important. >> So screw the audience. Why are you bringing up the audience?

¶412>> I'm bringing up the audience cuz he's that's who he's communicating. >> I don't care. That is my point then. That all he cares about is the money. That's why it's disgusting.

¶413>> No, he doesn't care about the money. So then why why are you bringing up the audience then? >> I'm bringing up the audience is because those are the people who he has to communicate to about God. >> All right, brother. It's insane to me that I'm defending the God part here.

¶414This is insane to me. That's insane. Go ahead. >> Okay. It's not just about uh it's not just about what you say, but it's also about how you lead your life as well.

¶415He's literally creating uh like he's being not only open about his faith but also he's uh using his talents and what he has in order to glorify God um with uh with his life in that way. So it's less about uh it's less about his talk and more about his walk in the way that he is condon uh conducting himself. >> Got it. So we got it. So we should make God a joke.

¶416Got it. We should not make Oh, hold on. Wait. I'm saying the way that you make God not a joke is in your walk. >> Is joking part of the walk or no?

¶417>> It uh is what do you mean by is joking part of the walk? >> Cuz you're saying like like I'm assuming walk means actions. So I'm saying joking is an action. So is that action okay? I'd say in a in a um in as much as it uh comports with your walk.

¶418>> Keep going. I'm I'm going to let you explain cuz Go ahead. Go. Keep going. So if you know um let's say you genuinely do care about your friend and you know you and you know you love your friend and your friend loves you.

¶419Right. Right. >> Mhm. >> But y'all can literally joke around and say like f you to one another. That is a joke.

¶420But y'all don't literally take each other as as spite. >> All right. So >> might have spite or hate towards one another. >> That's a good example. Now add I'm going to let you do it.

¶421I'm not going to do it. Make a scenario. Make a scenario to where if I joked with my friend, I would be an And then let's then you'll get what I'm saying. So go ahead. Make you do it.

¶422By the way, make a scenario where if I joked with my friend, it would I would be an Maybe if you took something that was uh that was personal. >> There you go. You already you already had to finish. Thank you. You literally said the word it's personal.

¶423>> So making a joke about something personal, you're an This guy's an >> This guy's an You just said it. You just said it for me. Cuz he's making a joke about something that is personal to people. Even to me. I don't believe it, but it's personal to me.

¶424I want to know if there's a God. I I I so want to know. I I literally willing to sell my soul to the devil to find out there's a God. >> Whoa. >> You say, "Whoa, but no." But you you see my point, though.

¶425I'm serious. This isn't. And I'm gonna curse real fast. >> I'm serious. He's not.

¶426>> He's making He's making a joke. I would literally give up my life so I could come back and tell all of my family that God is real. That's that's how serious I am. And then this dude is making shitty ass videos not giving any evidence. Why am I defending God, bro?

¶427Like why am I defending God? Like why? >> Like why? Well, first and foremost, his video on the test uh on his testimony isn't to provide evidence. He said he's going to create like a whole 25 hour >> and guess what that guess what that means, bro.

¶428If I found out there's God tomorrow, do you think I'm going to make a damn series? >> Like, listen listen to what you're saying, man. And I'm sorry I'm getting aggressive, but listen to what you're saying. >> You are saying that this dude is okay. He literally found God.

¶429This dude literally found God and you're saying it's okay for him to sit there and make a series. >> That's a joke, brother. >> That is a joke. And I No, no, sorry. No, I'm done with that.

¶430You need to really think about that. You are Somebody found out the cure to cancer. Let's just say it that way. Somebody found out the cure to cancer and you think it's okay for them to keep it a secret? >> They're not.

¶431>> Are you Are you serious? Like, no. No. No. Are you serious, brother?

¶432Like, you're saying it's okay for him to keep cancer cure a secret so he can go publish something later? We need lives saved right now. So, like, I don't know why I'm sitting here defending God when I don't even believe this but you are sitting here like defending somebody that says they have the cure to everything in the world and saying, "Hey, wait till next week. What if I die tomorrow? Like real talk.

¶433What if I die tomorrow and this fool said he's gonna wait till next week to show me God? Screw him, bro. >> I really wish I could talk to him. I would tell that to his face. Screw you.

¶434You're going to tell me you're going to make a series later? You got to be kidding me, bro. That's like a joke, man. That's a joke. That's a joke.

¶435>> What do you think? Okay. So >> that's a joke, bro. >> So one of the things that I would say is if you if you figured out that you had a cure to cancer, right? >> I would give it away.

¶436There's no You don't even have to ask me anything. No, >> there's nothing. No, no. I'm sorry. No, I'm not.

¶437There's There's literally zero. >> All right. Go ahead. Go ahead, bro. Go ahead.

¶438Go ahead. So, you figure out that you have a have a cure to cancer. >> Yep. >> All right. There are uh there are a whole lot of um whatchamacallit.

¶439You know, there are a lot of people that would be able to benefit from it, but you also know that it has to be a reproduced, b it has to be also tested in multiple variables. C there there's all sorts of like there are all sorts of different processes that are necessary in order for you to release those things. So, somebody would be absolutely selfish and and uh unwise if they said, "Oh, you figured out this works. Go ahead and release it to uh go ahead and release it to the small amount of people that you can." >> No, that's the that's you got the bad analogy there. Because in this analogy, >> yeah, I'm Well, I'm going to explain why.

¶440I'm going to explain why. like and you can disagree with me of course but in in in um in this analogy I would say that I really think that I have the solution >> and I need to make sure all scientists have this solution in their hands so they can go test it. That is what I'm saying this scenario is. We have somebody that is saying they found God in in modern times. By the way, like this dude just say he could he said he converted from being an atheist, which means he has to have proof, which means I'm going to wait a week to make a video.

¶441And then how many people die every day? Do you know? Quite a bit, right? We don't have to know the exact number, right? So, >> yes.

¶442Do you think that it's okay for this person that could save all of those people for eternity to not share that information because they can't share it correctly? Or should they share the information that they have, which he did not? I watched the video. He did not share the information. He didn't give any evidence.

¶443He just made claims. >> He >> he did not give evidence, brother. No, I and I know he didn't give evidence though. That was not the point of the video. >> Then he's selfish.

¶444Then he's selfish and he only wants to make money and I would love to talk to him. >> It's just to announce what h what happened. >> But brother, people are dying today. Like like do you not understand what I'm really saying here? Like I don't I'm so confused how you're not understanding.

¶445Somebody is dying today that's not saved. And this guy says he has just been saved and he's not sharing that situation. Like some of the Christians are the most selfish people that I've ever seen. Like it's so selfish, bro. It's so selfish and it it aggravates me because I'm defending something I don't even believe in.

¶446>> Like it's so selfish to me. >> Like why why are people so selfish? If you have the answer that everybody is looking for, just present it, brother. Stop with all of this BS, man. Like, let's Can we stop the BS, bro?

¶447Or or nobody really believes it. And that's okay to me. That is more that that is more in line with reality to me than anything. That nobody really believes this 100% like they pretend. Because if you believed, and I did, and you know why I know I believed 100%.

¶448I was literally willing to sacrifice my life so I could share it with everybody. That's how I know I did believe it at one point 100%. I was literally willing to leave my family, say, "Screw my parents, screw my family, screw my basketball career, screw everything," because the only thing that was important to me was spreading the message of Jesus Christ. And nothing else made sense to me. My family literally had to talk me down.

¶449Imagine that, brother. My family had to talk me down from giving up my life for Jesus Christ. That is real belief. That's real belief. >> That That is real belief because guess what?

¶450Jesus says that. Jesus says to give up everybody for him. I was willing to do that. Are you willing to do it? Would you give up your family?

¶451Would you give up your children? Would you give up your wife? No. Right. >> Of course, >> you would.

¶452You would. Then do it because that's what Jesus says to do. Why don't you do it? >> But Jesus also says to love. >> Do you see why you just said also?

¶453Do you see why you said al? Do you know why you said also? >> Do you know why? Do you know why? Because >> because you need to because you because No, no.

¶454Jesus didn't say there was nuance. >> He did. He literally did. >> No, brother. Jesus said, "Depart from me, right?" >> Did he not?

¶455>> He said, "Depart from you." Oh, to what? >> To the >> You're talking about to the man uh who wouldn't give up his possessions. >> Yeah. >> That was because that was the thing that was keeping him from following Christ. If those things do not keep you from following Christ, that's not what Jesus says.

¶456You're within the fullness of his gospel, >> then why did Jesus then you ought to give up? >> Then why did Jesus say uh hate your mother and father? >> Jesus say Jesus is saying that in relation to how you are to love him. >> Exactly. Which means them.

¶457I'm going to give you some curse words. >> It doesn't that is not what that means. It it does mean who cares about them. >> He literally says >> every every time Jesus gets a disciple, what does he tell them to do? >> To follow him.

¶458>> No. What does he say to do? >> He says to follow him. >> And and what, brother? Come on, man.

¶459Give up everything and follow me. Give up. >> All right, bro. I can't I can't I can't do the dishonest stuff right now. No, I'm being I'm being honest.

¶460I can't do it. Talking about the specific instance of uh >> brother, if you're not gonna be honest, I'm going to go to the next person right now. >> I'm being honest, bro. >> So, you're saying Jesus does not say give up everything and follow me. Is that what you're saying?

¶461Yes or no? He told he told them to cast uh he told him to um in the example of Peter and um >> does Jesus say give up everything and follow me? Yes or no and I'll give you time. That's fine if you're if you're looking. That's fine.

¶462>> I'm looking. >> Oh yeah. No, I'll be fair to you. You know I'm gonna be fair but I'm not going to do this like especially after watching that video. It made me so sick.

¶463I'm not doing that. And and all the Christians I see praising this guy, it literally I like I'm the believer. That's just that's what's hilarious. It's like I'm the believer and I'm sitting here saying this guy's I'm not even the believer. That's what's crazy.

¶464Why am I defending this? You guys are making me feel crazy. I think this shit's all But I know what it means to be a real believer. I was. And this guy's not.

¶465I will say that. And I would talk to him. I hope he I hope somehow I get big enough to talk to this guy cuz nope, that's not a real believer. Okay. So, >> in Luke, hold on.

¶466>> I'll be right back. >> You'll be back. >> All right. I'mma give you a little bit and I'm gonna jump to the next person, bro, because I'm running out of time. >> All right.

¶467So, >> I'm here. >> All right. All right. Cool. Go ahead.

¶468>> 14:33. He says um he says oh well 32 I'll start at 32 he says or else while other while the other is yet a great way off he sendeth an ambassad conditions of peace. >> So likewise who whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath he cannot be my disciple. Uh, sure. But I don't feel like that has anything to do with what I stated.

¶469>> Yeah. You said that uh Jesus says to forsake everything and follow him. And that's uh the verse that he says that he that he says that. >> Okay. So what's your explanation?

¶470So my explanation to that is uh is that uh in the passage we see that it's the dep pointing to the dependence that we are to have on Christ rather than the things of this world. >> All right. So, can you look up Luke 40 uh 14:33? >> Yeah, that's that's that's where I'm at. That's literally >> Oh, I'm sorry.

¶471You did say that. I apologize. Sorry. Uh those of you who do not give up everything, what does that mean to you? >> That is those who for uh who forsake everything as in like >> Do you do you see why I stopped believing this by the way?

¶472Because when I talk to somebody uh and this isn't derogatory, sorry. When I talk to someone like you, you literally are speaking for Jesus and I'm just reading the words. So is man fallible or is Jesus fallible? Which one? >> Man is fallible, bro.

¶473>> Cool. So I should not believe you and I should just read what it says. Correct. >> No. Excuse.

¶474Okay. And so that means that uh that anything that you read like in a science textbook could >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not talking. >> We're not talking about science. We're talking about Jesus who's supposed to be correct no matter what.

¶475Jesus is above science. Correct. >> Yes or no? >> Jesus. >> Cool.

¶476So, >> so don't bring up science, please, cuz we're talking about Jesus. Why? Why? Why? Why do I sound like the believer, by the way, here?

¶477I just want you to recognize that. Why do I sound like the believer? So >> when you say science, you're just talking about like observations of the universe. >> Is Jesus Should I Should I listen to science book or Jesus? Can you tell me one more time which one?

¶478>> You should listen to both. >> Oh, that's not what Jesus says. Okay. >> In as in as much as they hold truth, you should listen to both. >> Then you are making up your own religion.

¶479You're making up truth. >> You are making up your own religion. And I think that's fine by the way. I think that's what every I think that's what everybody's doing. >> Like I I I think you are making up your religion because I am reading what it says.

¶480You are changing what it says to fit what you want and I am just saying what it says. When Jesus when I believed by the way I don't believe guys so don't get confused. When I believed and I read Jesus said give up everything. I said to my father, "Fuck you." I said to my mother, "Fuck you. Jesus is the only thing that matters." Like, I'm so serious with you right now.

¶481I was way I was way more of a believer than half of the people I ever meet. Like Jesus Jesus told me to give up everybody. When Jesus told me to hate, guess what? I will I would have hated. Jesus says the hate like you don't listen to Jesus like I listen to Jesus.

¶482You make up your own religion. And as soon as you admit that, you'll understand what I'm saying. You don't listen to Jesus, brother. And that's okay because it's fake. And it it it literally is okay.

¶483It is fake. It is made up. And it's okay that you make up your own religion. I think we need to get past this. By the way, uh super chat from uh from uh Zeb.

¶484Thanks, Zeb uh for the super chat. Keeping it real. I'm going to keep it real. This like I ain't going to lie. This this dude videos that I watch kind of pissed me off.

¶485Um so I'm not I'm not I'm not as nice as today as I usually going to be. I'll be real with y'all. So, uh no, I'm not an undercover believer. I'm just calling out people that say they believe and they don't follow it. I'm kind of getting tired of it.

¶486Okay. If what you're saying is complet is comporting with what Christ uh had said, if you can't forsake, you got to forsake everything. You know, the disciples still had possessions at the end of the day whenever they were following. >> And guess what? Jesus probably said, and I'm sure we'll find it, that they also weren't listening to him.

¶487There's plenty of verses where Jesus is telling them that they still don't believe like he wants them to. >> But he still calls them disciples. >> Yeah, because literally he does, does he not? >> Cool. I No, no, I agree with you.

¶488But here here's the reason why I'm pointing this out. It shows that this ain't from God, brother. >> Oh my goodness. >> This is from human beings. Because if it was from God, why is God allowing them to do that Why is God allowing them to not be what God wants?

¶489If that's the case, why is anybody going to hell, bro? If it doesn't matter, if it doesn't matter what if you listen to God or not, because that's what you're telling me right now. >> You're missing. I'm trying. Hold on.

¶490>> All right. Hold on. >> I got to talk to you at a time where where emotions are a little less like heightened because even I'm starting to get hyped up myself a little bit. >> Get hype, man, because I want to know the truth. >> Get hype.

¶491I want you to get >> it might be, >> hey, it might be just firing off the hip rather than actually like thinking through what I'm trying to say and and vice versa. >> All right, cool. Yeah, I I I to be fair to you, you've never heard me speak this hyped and I'm probably not as mad as I'm making it sound. Uh, but I'm trying to make a point here, okay? And the point is either this book is telling the truth or it's not.

¶492And if I have to listen to human interpretation, I think it's already proving my point. If what you're Go ahead, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

¶493>> But that's also that that's not a uh whatchamacall that's a bit of a double standard for what we know from just human writings in general. >> Yeah. But when I say human writings, this is okay. Can I ask you this? All right.

¶494Is the Bible from God or no? >> It's written by man. Is that what you're saying? >> Come on, brother. You know what?

¶495Is Is the Bible from God or is the Bible No, it's not. Is the Bible from God or not? >> I'd say I'd say yes. in a sense. >> Okay.

¶496So, didn't you see why I'm so serious about it? When people say it's from God, >> does that make sense why I'm serious about it? >> Cuz a lot of people when they say it's from God, they literally think that the Holy Spirit like took control of the people and wrote down the words when that is not the case at all. That's never been the case for anything this. >> Okay.

¶497So, can the Bible like we're going to go down this path right now. Uh can the Bible be wrong? Of course, it's the writing of a person. It's handwritten things. It's written by the hands of men.

¶498>> All right, cool. You're being honest. We're on the same page here. Cool. So, the Bible can be wrong.

¶499How do we figure out uh which part of the Bible's uh Bible is true. >> You a look at the context. You look at the historical can't do that because you can't do that because you told me anybody that wrote it could be wrong. What do you mean? Yeah, they they can be wrong.

¶500You look at not only uh not only the context of what I'm what I'm saying is like the c not only the cultural context but also the historical context. You also look at as much as it comports with like uh archaeology and other fields uh of science as well. >> Cool. So there's a there's a intent hold on excuse me. Oh yeah, >> the genre and the intent of the author as well in order to in order to see what exactly is true about what they're writing.

¶501>> All right, cool. That like now there's a there's a verse that says that Egypt would be in uninhabited for 40 years. That's wrong. And Egypt has never been uninhabited for 40 years. So now the Bible just lied.

¶502You say the Bible like it's just like >> Okay. Sorry. The person that wrote that lied, correct? >> Okay. So, where where might that be?

¶503So, I can find it later. >> Just you're you're already searching. So, just search. >> Okay. >> Prophecy that Egypt will be um uninhabited for 40 years.

¶504It should come up with your verse. Excuse me. >> You know I like you, bro. Even if I get aggressive, I like you. >> Appreciate it.

¶505Like you too, man. >> All right. What does it say? You should have found it by now, I'm sure. >> So, yeah, Ezekiel 29, uh, 10 and 11.

¶506>> Okay. So it says um I will make uh I am not the enemy of you uh both of you and your river. I will make the land of Egypt a totally desolate wasteland from Mikdoll to Azwan as far as the uh as far south as the border of Ethiopia for 40 years. Not a soul will pass away uh pass that way. Neither people nor animals.

¶507It will be completely uninhabited. >> Yeah. Has that ever happened? >> No. No.

¶508>> Right. All right. Yeah. No, thank you. So, Bible false right there.

¶509If there's one lie, everything could be a lie. That's how you have to look at it. If there is one >> That's not the way we look at anything. >> All right, bro. Let me Let me Let me find out that you find out.

¶510Let me not say that. All right. If I found out that my wife cheated on me one time, I will not trust her. That's what's gonna happen. No, that's like saying Okay, that's like saying you have a you have a building full of co-workers or workers and one of them lies.

¶511Does that mean that the entire staff are liars to the end? >> Uh, I get how you added in a little bit there, but I am saying the whole relationship I cannot trust. Let me just cement it that for you or cement it that way for you. If my li if my wife cheats on me one time, whether we stay together or not, by the way, I will never trust her again, the the relationship is soured. Or you could say that that person who lied is not having a genuine you you could just say that person is not having a genuine relationship with you.

¶512But the other people still h need to be investigated in order to say wholesale throw this company away because they are more bankroll. >> Let's keep going with this. That's fine. So say the other parts of the story are still using my wife as a reference. I'm going to not trust them too.

¶513>> You say say that whole story is a reference. >> Like say everybody else that's writing the story in relationships cuz that's what we're talking about here. Uh and they're saying that my wife >> cuz remember my wife's a part of this whole book, right? By the way, what what's a do you I don't know the context of this. >> I mean, it's just it's just a scenario, brother.

¶514It's just a scenario. I am saying once somebody lies to you, I give you every you you have a right not to trust these people anymore. Like, who am I to tell you once somebody lies to you to keep trusting them? >> Yeah, you you literally don't have to. I I also agree with that as well.

¶515>> But you're not agreeing with you'd be unjustified in in saying that it's completely untrustworthy. >> Okay, if I if I I I will give you that. If I said I 100% sure you would be stupid to trust them, okay, but I hope you understand what I'm saying on why I would be skeptical of everything after that point. >> And you should question, you should investigate. >> No, no, no, no, no.

¶516There's a there's a little bit different cuz you're saying question. I am literally saying be skeptical that they're telling the truth. There's a difference between questioning and being skeptical. There's like it's a little bit different. There's a little difference.

¶517>> I also agree. But you should uh and what you feel skeptical about >> it. Uh it's on you whether or not you want to investigate the claims or walk away. Like you said, you have a right to not want to to do that, but there's still that there's still no justification to say wholesale that it is >> like bankrupt in that sense. >> How many times would somebody have to lie to you until you agreed with me?

¶518>> You said how many times would somebody have to lie to me? >> Yeah, until you agree with that I shouldn't trust them anymore. Like how many lies would it take? That's not only is that subjective, but >> yeah, that's why I'm asking you. It is subjective.

¶519Yes, I agree. I'm saying how many times would your wife be able to lie to you or your child and you still stay cool with them? Is there a number or there is just something that it is there just something that would be so dramatic that you just don't trust them anymore? >> I would trust them. Uh well, one thing I would say I would trust them in as much that as they um as they deem themselves trustworthy.

¶520>> Exactly. The Bible when you read it, >> it deems itself not trustworthy. >> So you that's that's one of the things that is is kind of odd to say wholesale. No, because every time like like if we if we went through this >> one second, sorry. If we go through the Bible, I could give you a plenty of verses that are obviously wrong and you're going to give me an apologetic.

¶521So, let's say you're coming to me like my friend and you're like, "Hey, bro. Your wife's cheating on you, man." And you keep giving me examples and I keep giving you an apologetic on why you're wrong. That's how silly this is. So if you come to me with >> a false analogy like it's one like it's just one thing or like one author is not. >> So if 10 people come up to me telling me my wife's cheating and then I still believe don't believe them.

¶522Am I smart to do that? >> 10 different people come up to me and and show and say they see my wife cheating. What would you say? Okay. What what's what's the point you're trying to make?

¶523>> Because every time I would bring up to something to you, let's just say me and you spent hours talking about the Bible, I promise you, every time I brought up something wrong with the Bible, you would have a reason for it. You already did it. I brought up some things. >> Go ahead. Go ahead.

¶524>> When When you say something wrong, you you mean like just as in something that is >> Hey, let's just let's just do it real fast. Why did Jesus say the end was coming uh in the lifetime of the people? Go ahead and make your excuse and then prove my point, please. >> Why did he say he was coming? >> Yeah, Jesus Jesus said everything was coming to an end in the lifetime of the people that were there.

¶525So, go ahead and make your apologetic. There you go. You already did it. I'm not even going to let you finish. That's it.

¶526You already did it. You're making an excuse. Jesus didn't mean what he meant. That's all you're saying, bro. >> You're misquing.

¶527You're all right. Let me pull it up for you. Let's do it. All right. Some of you standing here today, right?

¶528That's the verse we're talking about. All right. Go ahead. >> Go ahead. Go ahead.

¶529>> Go ahead and tell me the apologetic that Jesus didn't mean what he meant. >> So, we see in Matthew 16:28, uh, we see, let me, let me go to the verse. So we see in the different examples where Jesus says like the uh some of you will not taste death until uh before seeing the kingdom of God come with power. >> Cool. So stop there.

¶530>> When when did Jesus come and and in the king All right. When did Jesus do that? Let's say it that way. I know what excuses you're going to give by the way. So go ahead.

¶531I just want you to say that. I want to skip all of this because everybody knows the answers. So what is your apologetic? What did Jesus mean? And did it happen?

¶532destruction of the second temple and yes that happened in 70 AD. >> Okay. What about seeing the man coming on the clouds or sorry seeing the man coming in his in his kingdom. What happened? >> That uh that is always that is a reference to Daniel which just means uh is referring to the Lord coming upon the earth.

¶533And that is what >> Yeah. But there's supposed to be there's supposed to be a kingdom. Where's the kingdom? >> The kingdom uh is the same kingdom that God says that the kingdom of God is in your midst. >> Yeah.

¶534Do you see what I'm saying? Come on, bro. Now kingdom now. Now now, but but now but now now kingdom doesn't mean kingdom. >> Now now like now now now kingdom now kingdoms now kingdom is a metaphor.

¶535I get why you're frustrated by the way. Like I so I'm so serious here. >> Literally say the kingdom is made without hands. >> All right. C can we can we sit there?

¶536Let's look up kingdom. Do you want to look up kingdom in the Bible and how many times kingdom >> kingdom is without hands? All kingdoms on earthly that physically existed are were made with hands. >> Truly. Truly I tell you, some of you standing here will not taste death before they see the son of man coming in his kingdom.

¶537What are you talking about right now? Matthew 16:28. Truly I tell you, some of you standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. Why are you making stuff up? >> I am not making stuff up.

¶538>> Okay, then tell me how you got whatever you just said out of that verse I just read. >> Okay, so the kingdom. >> No, no, no, no. I am talking about Matthew 16:28. Is that true or not?

¶539>> That is >> Don't go pulling up Don't go pulling up Psalms. Don't go pulling up Ezekiel. >> No, no. I'm I'm going I'm just going to I'm just going to reference what Jesus is recorded saying. That is it.

¶540>> Matthew 16:28. Go ahead. What does it say? Read just that verse, please. >> Yeah.

¶541So there will be some saying here which shall not taste death taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom. >> Cool. Who was there that we know of? >> We see his disciples. >> Cool.

¶542Did the disciples die before the moment that you're saying is what Jesus talking about? >> No, they did not. 70 AD. >> All right. Cool.

¶543So, no. No. I'm working with you here like I said. Okay. So no disciples died before the moment you're talking about.

¶544Okay. So now what does the son of man coming in his kingdom mean to you? The son of man coming in his kingdom is referring to uh Christ having essentially like lordship over over Christians. >> That's not what it says. And can you admit that for me real fast?

¶545Even for yourself, that's not what it says. And you needed to say that. >> Yeah, that's not what the passage says. But meaning goes beyond just what is what is said. And we can also derive what he means from the other things that he said about the kingdom of God.

¶546>> So Jesus, who is God, right? You believe that Jesus is God? >> Yes. >> Okay. So God needs to not tell us exactly what God means and allow you to interpret it for me.

¶547Right? That's what God that's how powerful God is. Right? >> Or God gave us the means of communication so that we can explore what things might be. >> Cool.

¶548So then why isn't what I am saying true then? >> Because you just said you just told me God gave it to me to interpret. I am interpreting it exactly like it says. You're telling me I'm wrong, but God gave me the same brain as you. And why is my interpretation wrong and yours correct?

¶549I would uh I would just say that mine has more support from scripture. >> No. >> And from Mine Mine has more support. Mine has more support because God just says what it is. God does it all the time.

¶550God says something will happen. Guess what? What happened when God said, "Let there be light?" >> Go ahead. Answer me. What happened when God said, "Let there be light?" >> essentially like the the universe.

¶551>> Yeah. Holy There was no need in for interpretation. God said let there be light and it happen. >> Correct. >> You know that there are multiple different ways of interpreting that as well.

¶552Right. >> No, I am saying then >> then okay then you don't believe the creation account either then. >> I believe that the creation account is literally just to uh to say that God created and that he created. >> Brother, you're proving my point. Everything you read in the Bible, you make into what you want it to be.

¶553I >> I Bro, >> okay, cool. So, so when God said when God said, "Let there be light," what happened? Like, don't don't like don't do this with me. Like, I'm so serious right now. Be straightforward with me.

¶554When God said, "Let there be light," what happened? He created the universe or he at least started the universe into motion for it to be ordered in the way that it is. >> All right. What's the next thing God said? Do we need to look it up?

¶555Do we want to go through the creation? At what point are you going to make something up? That's what I'm asking. Did God really make Adam and Eve or sorry, Adam out of the dirt? >> Okay.

¶556>> Yes. Yes or no? Yes or no? I'm I'm like we're not playing this game. It's gonna be serious.

¶557>> I'm not playing. I'm not playing. Cool. So, it's if the Bible Hold on, brother. The Bible is either literal or is it or it isn't?

¶558I'm so tired of these games. >> What do you mean? >> All right. >> No, it's not. The book of Psalms is literally a book of Psalms.

¶559>> Yeah, but hold on. The Psalms. I'll give you the Psalms because who wrote the Psalms? >> David, >> right? It doesn't say it's it doesn't but it doesn't but it doesn't >> but it doesn't say it's from God brother.

¶560It doesn't say it's from God. I am only talking about the verses that are supposedly spoken from God. That's it. >> You you also have to understand the context and the pyic in which uh Genesis was written too. >> All right.

¶561So you're literally just saying yeah. All right, bro. I I hope you understand what I'm saying. Maybe not. Um >> you have to Okay.

¶562if you're going to try and take Okay, I let me see if I'm understanding the point that you're getting at because I want to understand you just like I want for you to understand me. >> Okay. >> Okay. So you're saying that if it's coming from the the mouth of God, then it should then it should be left without any interpretation because a perfect being should be able to communicate perfectly. >> Is that what you're saying?

¶563>> Do you agree with that? I I also uh I agree with that statement but I agree I disagree with what you derive from that statement. I believe in um what is called doxastic permissivism. So essentially in English that just means you can look at the same uh humans can look at the same piece of information >> and uh and derive two different conclusions with it and also have different behaviors as a result. >> Why are we bringing up humans again?

¶564I don't care about humans, bro. I really don't. Like I don't trust humans. Are you not getting what I'm saying? Like I >> No, I don't.

¶565No. >> No. >> Why not? >> Because for all decisions because because I'm wrong all the time. >> So you're right sometimes, too.

¶566>> I'm more wrong. Most people are more wrong. You're >> some people are trustworthy, bro. >> No, no, no. There's a difference between like we have a gradient for trustworthy.

¶567The reason I think you might be even you right now, right? Like we could we can argue. I I still think I I as much as I know about you, I would probably still trust you in a way like right. I was like like we just talked a little bit. I probably still trust you.

¶568But that's because my standard for me and you is way lower than my standard would be for a guy. Like I I I expect you to I expect you to mess up. So, I trust you in a way that if a god came along, hell no. If a god acted like you, I'm not trusting that God. It's supposed to be God, >> bro.

¶569That's that's just I don't know, bro. I don't know about >> I'm just honest about it, bro. I don't make excuses. I don't make I don't make excuses for anybody, >> bro. >> No, it's not.

¶570Is God Is God the the man or not? I'm going to jokingly say that. Is God the man or not? as in the man like he's the guy >> like God's God God's the is God the or not >> he is he is a a perfect father >> cool >> I wouldn't say that cuz that's blasphemy by part if if God is the the then there is no excuse for the you're the because you're the and you are giving excuses for something that you're saying is the and that's where I have a problem. I'm gonna let you finish up.

¶571I'm gonna let these other people join. I did talk a lot, so I'm going to let you finish. So, go ahead. >> I I understand. I I genuinely thank you for your time and for for having these kind of conversations, man.

¶572Uh I just I don't know. I I even if something is 100% like provably factually true, we as in and um in the truest sense we as humans can look at these the things that are that are true and also explain those truths in a in a good and um what should we call it? communicable way, discernable way, and still have people who receive that message like walk away not even believing it's true or like not behaving as though maybe believing it's true but also not behaving as though it's true like and so I I don't think that we should have any special pleading on the messenger in whatsoever because they're also just in communication. Like you should truh you should trust their communication as in as much as they've been deemed and tr proven trustworthy by their speech as well. >> Okay.

¶573I I really hope you listen to what I'm saying, brother. Um, >> likewise. Likewise. >> Well, I always listen because that's why I come back with the stuff I say. Like I don't like I I don't think a lot of people realize like I would believe if if if evidence was given.

¶574I I I am not I am not this person sitting here. >> I don't care like if God is an I I think God is an Right? Even if God is real, I think God's an Um, I'm not one of those people that would sit here and tell you that I would be able to just jump into the lake of fire because I am stubborn. I'm not going to pretend that because being burned isn't fun. So, I don't think if I'm given the opportunity, if the Laker fire is in front of my face and God literally shows up and he's like, "Hey, bro.

¶575You want to go in that lake of fire or be a slave to me? I probably I'm probably so weak that I would be a slave to God. Now, would I say that that God is good? No. If I'm allowed to I probably would still say this God is bad, but I'm going to be a slave.

¶576That's how honest I am about this Like I don't I don't play these games, bro. Like these this like this is game. Like people play like this shit's games and it's like it's not a game. If this shit's real, it's real. And if it's not, it's not.

¶577And if you've never had a horrible life, you don't understand what I'm saying. Like when shit's real, it's just real and you have to deal with it. I think only privileged people say that they would do certain things in horrible situations. So, I'm not even going to pretend to do that. If a situation is horrible, guess what?

¶578you're probably going to conform and that's what sucks. So my point to you is I am being more honest about this than you really think. And there is no proof of this. The only proof of it is people making excuses for it. And I'm sure we'll talk again, brother.

¶579I'm going to think about what you're saying. I'm gonna let homie talk that's been waiting for a little while. And I appreciate you calling in, dog. >> Of course. Of course.

¶580Always. Stay blessed. >> I know you pray. I know you pray. So, take care, bro.

¶581Take care, bro. I don't take offense to that, by the way. So, it's all good. >> Peace. >> All right, brother.

¶582>> Pray. >> All right. What's up, brother? You are on the line. You You've been waiting, so I'm talking to you in the hat.

¶583Sorry, I don't have a name for you. >> Oh. Oh, sorry about Can you hear me? >> Yeah. What What should I call you?

¶584>> Uh, you can call me Raptor, man. White Raptor. White Raptor. All right, that's right. >> Let's go.

¶585What you got for me? What you got? >> Okay. Um, real quick, man. To understand the Bible, you got to understand duality.

¶586>> We have a God on the sixth day of creation that creates a man in his own image. As we say, what people don't understand is the the uh profound depth of what image means in the Bible. It means to shade a phantom. It means to um to uh shade a phantom especially an idol. It's an idol that is creating this god Elohim.

¶587People don't even know what Elohim are. People don't even know what Yahweh is. They don't know who Jesus is oros nor handg. They don't know any of the names of God. They don't understand anything that's going on in the Bible of God.

¶588So what I say is in Genesis 1:25 it says God created the beast of the field each according to their kind. This is a hidden parable that's saying God created the United Nations each according to their kind. Now let me say in my creation story the way that I understand creation God creates the heavens above. He creates spiritual beings, saraphims, angels, demons. He creates both good and evil spirits.

¶589and he creates them in in the higher mind of the cerebrum, the left and right hemisphere of the brain. This is the cranium. This is the ark of the covenant right here. This is your ark. Okay?

¶590The tablets of God are the left and right hemisphere of the brain. This is where our commandments are written, not on a piece of freaking rock by the magic fingers of God carving to Moses to give to Israel. The contradictions inside of the Bible are many, but they're there for a reason. They're there because we must use discernment to find out what is being said in the scriptures. So that God on the sixth day Elohim that creates a man, if you look up the definition of him, >> the Bible, the definition is properly self.

¶591If you look up the definition of self in um >> hold up >> western dictionary, it will tell you in complete respects to individuality. >> All right. Cool, cool, cool. One second. I I just want to make sure cuz like and I'm not trying to cut you off for any reason more than that.

¶592I want to be respectful to what you're saying and make sure I can ask questions. Okay. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Okay, cool. So, I got uh Pyro is gonna Pyro has a couple questions for you and I'm going to be right back.

¶593>> Go ahead, Pyro. >> Yeah. Um, do you think God went from uh not creating the universe to creating the universe or was he always creating the universe? >> That's a question for me. >> Yeah.

¶594>> Okay. Um, God in a sense is a spiritual being and plainly says into the Bible in numbers 23:19 that he is not a man. So if we look at the universe as you're as you're thinking as you would see the universe, look at it in reverse. When we look outside our looking glass because that's what our eyes are. They're looking posts.

¶595All right? And we look at the world in reverse. We think that the world's out there and the world isn't out there. the world and everything that's going on is going on inside of our mind. It's going on.

¶596>> Hold up. I'm not talking about like how we can see stuff. I'm just asking a simple logical question, right? Like um do you believe God is timeless outside of time? >> Yes.

¶597>> Okay. So, how does a timeless God um go from not creating to creating? >> Well, I'm not really sure that I completely understand your question. Well, can't have to go from one state to another requires time. Correct.

¶598>> Right. Yes. Okay. I think I I understand what you're saying now. Okay.

¶599Is God timeless? You asked. The question to that is, is the supreme creator of all things a timeless entity? In this particular case, yes, but time does exist. >> But let's look at time for a minute.

¶600The very first parable in Genesis 1:25 says, "Then God said, then God created the heaven and earth." >> Sorry, I don't interrupt you too much, but like when you keep referring to the Bible, you kind of already assume that's true. >> So, we can talk about just the logic without the Bible. Correct. >> No, we can't. No, that's what that's what atheists want to do.

¶601And that's what I dis I will not allow an atheist to tell me that I cannot use the Bible. If you don't want if if if you want to use the Bible, then we have to be on the same playing field and you have to prove that what the Bible says is true first. Otherwise, we could just talk about the logic behind uh how God operates. It's up to you. >> Well, it that's that and that is exactly what my point duality.

¶602>> No, no, that's not your point. >> Okay. Well, then you explain to me what my point is. >> Well, you you didn't really have much of a point. And I'm asking a simple logical question.

¶603Is God timeless? Yes. If that's the case, how does he go from not creating to creating? That requires time. Correct?

¶604It requires time through a falling. If you believe in anything, time exists because we are born into a plane. This plane of existence is time. >> Outside of this plane of existence, >> time exists. But in order to go from one state to another, you have to be within time.

¶605>> That I would normally agree with. But you as a supreme creator, that that is not the case. You do not outside. >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

¶606Yeah. If you're outside of time, that means you're immutable. You're you're not changing. Correct. >> Actually, if uh predestination exists as it says in the Bible, then everything has been predestined.

¶607And I don't particularly care for this scripture. And the reason why is because in this predestination then that means that we're all destined for one place or another, heaven or hell. I don't believe in hell. >> I'm not talking about predestination. I'm just asking the nature of God.

¶608If he's timeless, that means he's immutable. And if he uh had if he went from a state of not creating to creating, then that is a logical paradox. That means he's still within time. Um, no it doesn't because I'm trying to explain. No it doesn't because God Elohhe are gods that are used of a supreme creator.

¶609If you read the Bible or the concordance it's very clear. I I read it. >> Okay then explain that doesn't explain my question. It has nothing to do with my question. My question is a logical one.

¶610>> I'm sorry I didn't hear that last. >> Yeah. Let's let's ask the question again real fast. Yeah. My question is is logical.

¶611If God is outside of time, right, then that means that there is at no point in time when he can go from not creating to creating. >> In other words, you're saying that creation is an ongoing motion. It is in continuum. >> That's that's the other option, right? Either God but that means that creation and God are both eternal.

¶612>> That we Exactly. I agree with that. But the problem with that is that um there's not no point that goes against all theology that there's at no point where God created the universe. The universe is just a separate entity at that point that has always existed. >> It is that's exactly what it is.

¶613That's what I'm trying to share with people. >> God isn't the creator. He just lives along. >> No, no, no. I didn't say that.

¶614I said that God Supreme uses Elohim. The definition for Elohim is plural of Eloha. God's in the ordinary sense. specifically used of a supreme creator. Everything that's in the Bible are gods that are being used.

¶615>> That doesn't change the logic. >> All right, let me let me let me ask something real quick. Sorry, guys. Um, so if you had never had the Bible, how would you describe what you're saying? Let's pretend the Bible doesn't exist.

¶616>> Can you give me >> That's beautiful. >> Okay, sure. So then explain to me without Bible words for me so I can understand. Um, all right. You're walking down the street with your girlfriend.

¶617You and her holding hands and um across the street, a car goes by and in that drive by shoots a couple of young kids walking down the street to their death. It doesn't take a Bible and it doesn't take the Ten Commandments written on rock to know that you just saw something that you don't want any part of. You just saw something that was definitely evil, man. And that is what it's all about. We're here.

¶618>> Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

¶619Hold on. Hold on. Cuz I don't think they answer my question. Uh I I still want to comment on that because the people that shot the people, I don't think they care. So I don't think that what you just said makes sense because there are people that would not care if they shot and killed somebody.

¶620But I don't think I don't want to get off sidetracked. I just want to answer that. >> Fear though. >> Fear. >> Fear though.

¶621You Yeah. You you just saw somebody get shot across the street that's going to create an energy. You're going to feel >> cool. Shock wave. I >> I really don't want to That's cool.

¶622I don't want to stick on that because I want uh I don't think that answered my question. But you don't think the people that shot don't feel fear of getting caught? >> I'm Yeah, >> I'm pretty sure that there's a wide range. >> Right. So there's fear on either side.

¶623It doesn't make either one right or wrong because of fear. You can fear things and do wrong. Right. >> Yeah. I'm a perfect example of how you do home invasions and kick kick in people's doors and rob their homes and steal their pot and smack them upside with bats and >> All right.

¶624Hold on. Hold on. I hope you don't do all that anymore, but let's go back to >> No, no, no. That's what I'm saying, man. >> All right.

¶625Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. All right.

¶626Cool. Cool. Cool. Uh because the question was um explain to me what you had just said about what God is and without the Bible. And the reason I'm asking this and this might help you answer the question is because when I hear people tell me about what God is because you're kind of telling me the Bible doesn't have it right.

¶627Am I right? >> It does not have at all. But things that are right. >> Hold on. That's fine.

¶628That's fine. But I just want you to know I'm kind of understanding what you're saying. So you are saying that the Bible doesn't have it exactly right. Now my question is to test you is to be like try to think of what you're saying with pretending the Bible doesn't exist. So I want you to explain to me what God is.

¶629I want you to explain to me everything you explained about God, but without using Yahweh, without using the words that come from this book. Let's pretend for a second this book doesn't exist and then I want you to explain the same things to me without this book. That's what I'm asking. Okay. All right.

¶630Go ahead. >> The best that I can do is um starting with the spphenoid bone. I don't know if you know what the spphenoid bone is, but we're going to talk about ascension and that is spiritually. You said no scriptures. So when we look at the sppheninoid bone, this is what sits on the lower p the higher pallet of the mind.

¶631All the other bones in the brain or the skull connect to the spphenoid bone. Now you have >> senoid sppheninoid. >> Uh s p h e n o i d. >> I don't mean to interrupt. Can I just ask the relevance?

¶632He just asked me to explain what God is without using the scriptures. >> Guys, this is what Are you going to let me talk? Are you going to let me share what it is? >> Hold on. Hold on.

¶633Don't get aggressive. I think I think >> like I think that I think I think that's a legit question, right? Like he's trying to make sure that you're answering the question, right? Am I wrong? >> Yeah.

¶634Just asking the relevance. I'm not saying don't tell me. I'm just wondering how this relates to the answer. Well, bro, there is no one sentence answer. Okay, we're talking.

¶635>> All right, cool, cool, cool, cool. Keep keep going and then we'll we'll see at the end. Like, I'll give you I'm going to give you a minute to to do that. Go ahead. >> Let's just run it.

¶636Temples. The temples of God or the temple, the two temples right here. The temple, the pineal gland. Jacob crosses the river. He calls that that river.

¶637>> No, no Bible. No Bible. >> Okay. Well, the river then that that we're speaking about outside of the Bible is um the river that flows between the left and right hemisphere of the brain. Um no scripture, but when Moses separates the Red Sea, Red Sea is an artery that goes through both the left and right hemisphere of the brain.

¶638>> All right. All right. Hold on, brother. No, I can't >> understand. >> Like, hold on.

¶639Hold on. Sorry. I'm gonna let you guys talk. I'm gonna let you talk for a second. But my point and and this is not a dig on you dog.

¶640Like this is literally me proving a point that I wonder what we would be talking about if this book didn't exist. Like you you are you are literally incapable of explaining what you're saying without what was written by men. Men, no women in involved. Men wrote >> that's a that's a lie. You're very wrong.

¶641The Bible does have many books written by women. >> What? What? >> Yeah. Yeah.

¶642>> You Okay. >> The book of Ruth is written by a woman. >> Written by a woman. Written by a woman. Are you sure?

¶643>> Um, the story of Ruth. Sorry, let me correct myself there. Um, when women did administer to women or to to the men, they ministered to the men. >> Cool. Cool.

¶644So, I I'll let you correct it. Did any woman write anything in the Bible? >> Um, not that the Bible shows. >> Okay, that's fair. So, we're only going by what the Bible says.

¶645So, I'm going to ask again. Did any women according to what we know write in the Bible? >> You you kind of uh >> It's okay, bro. Just be just be honest, dog. It's okay.

¶646It's okay. >> Well, you're asking me a question. You're saying I can't use the Bible. And then you refer back right to the Bible. You want to talk about the Bible or don't you want to talk about the Bible?

¶647>> The reason I brought up the Bible is because you brought up Moses again, right? Well, so then I can't bring up anything to do with any historical figure that's written inside of the Bible. >> Correct. That was my question because I wanted to show a point that your answers are literally still coming from what you already were taught. I am trying to find something that's beyond that.

¶648>> Yeah. Well, Jesus did say, "Is it not written in your law that I have said ye are gods?" >> Yeah, you're you're proving my point, brother. struggle with that. >> No, no, no. No, no, no.

¶649It's because I'm proving You're You're literally proving my point. Um, we are taught these things. Did you grow up in uh like a Christian neighborhood and stuff like that, >> bro? I've been a Catholic. I've been a Jehovah Witness.

¶650I've been a Christian. I've been Buddhist. I've done them all. I've read them all. I've been a Mormon.

¶651>> Then I appreciate that. Do you think that if you grew up in uh like Pakistan, you would have different beliefs? I'm pretty sure that yeah, if that was the case, but that's why I read so many different Bibles because the answers are in each of the Bible. These people took this. >> So then I wonder why it >> Yeah.

¶652Then I wonder why your stories didn't include Muhammad. Well, I if if I was given any kind of time at all, I could go into and talk about what he said in what the teachings are of the Quran where it says that las said that he will destroy mankind by women, power, and money. That's in the Quran. Am I wrong? >> Hey, I'm glad you Hey, no.

¶653Hey, hey, you answered me. You gave me a Quran thing. That's cool. I'm going to give you credit, brother. Like, I just want you to know when you answer a question legit, I'm going to give you credit.

¶654But my point to you is uh what you you you gave me the answer that I wanted. So you have you are saying these things universally prove your point. Right? Whether I'm talking about the Quran, whether I'm talking about uh the Book of Mormon, whether I'm talking about Buddha, whether I'm talking about um Hinduism, you are saying all of these point to something, right? That's what I'm hearing now.

¶655>> They all point to Christ. Why? That's why he left at the age of 12. He left. He disappeared at the age of 12 and he returned at the age of 30.

¶656That's 18 years between that time. 18 is a representation of 666. Let me just say real quick. Jesus says, >> "Hold on. I have to I have to interject." >> What?

¶657No. Nobody ever lets me talk about 666. Every time I bring up I I No, no, no. I promise you you will get to talk about 666. You You will get to talk about 666.

¶658You got me interested. You got me. You got me sitting here. I'm This is over my time I'm usually having. I promise you.

¶659You got me interested enough to hear you. So, let uh let Pyro let Pyro ask his question, please. >> I just don't understand this the this numerology. This this way that you're connecting these dots make no sense. >> Like temples and >> let me speak.

¶660Right. You're talking about temples and then you point to your head. You're talking about rivers and then you point to blood. You're talking about 18. I could do the same logical gymnastics and reach no actual conclusion with that sort of logic.

¶661It just sounds gullible and >> you don't know. >> I could say I could say listen I have five fingers and if I go to the fifth page of the Bible oh there's a word and if I look at the fifth word and then I can draw some conclusion about that and I can say >> well the Bible is well maybe you should try it because that's exactly how it's written code bro. >> All right. >> No it's not logic hold. I'm just muting real quick.

¶662And this not disrespect anybody. I muted both. All right. So, all right. We're going to do here's what we're going to do.

¶663And we got a short time. I got another person that wants to speak, brother. So, if you can within um it is 7:14 my time. In two minutes, please explain to Pyro what you're trying to say. Pyro is going to give you two minutes.

¶664That's a long time. By the way, Pyra is going to give you two minutes and then he's going to get to speak for two minutes. Okay, that's what we're going to do. All right, let's go. You got two minutes.

¶665I'm counting the clock now. Yes, you first go. >> Genesis 1:1. In the beginning, God created the heaven and earth. Beginning is time.

¶666Time is 60 seconds, 60 minutes, 24 hours. 2 + 4 is 6. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. When you add the sum of the word, it comes to 60. 6 plus 0 is 6.

¶667And the word said three times in the parable is 666. Jesus appears disappeared off grid at the age of 12. Returned at the age of 30. 1 plus 2 is three and 3 + 0 is 3. So that gives you 3 + 3 which is 6.

¶668Jesus is the devil. Jesus is 666. God of Yahweh is 666. Yahw is Lord is 666. And I can prove it all with the Gamatria calculator.

¶669I can prove it all with the strong concordance. I can prove it with all of the scriptures. Also Jesus's number in Christianity is 888. 8 + 8 + 8 is 24 and 2 + 4 is 6. His eternal number is 8.

¶6701 + 8 + 2 1 + 8 + 3 + 4 + 5 all the way to 8 is 36, which represents three sixes. If you count all the way to 36, it comes to 666. The parable 13:18. Here's a call for wisdom. Let the one with insight calculate the number of the beast, for it's the number of a man, and his number is 666.

¶671Genesis 1:25, God created the beast of the field, each according to their time. It's the first time the beast is mentioned in the Bible. And then he creates a man. God Elohim creates a man. He creates himself in an image of God.

¶672And he creates this man himself in an image. And he creates them male and female. He creates them. That is a transvestite. That is a hermaphodite.

¶673That is a god that created itself as a devil on the sixth day of creation. Revelations 13:18 has everything to do with the sixth day of creation. There's no question about that 100%. I can prove it. If you don't believe it, check out my channel on YouTube, WhiteRaptor News Ministries or White Raptor News, and I will bust a cap up anybody who wants to deny my lessons and what I've learned because I've got decades studying numerology, gamatria, etmology, laugh.

¶674Look, pilgrimage. The very word pilgrim tells us that it's a long trip to a journey on a on a holy place. But when you look at the word pill, it comes from old French, which is piler. Piler means to plunder. Grim is a savage and fierce person.

¶675So the very word Gilbert >> one minute left. One minute. >> Plundering vicious savage person who landed on Plymouth Rock in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is the sixth state of the United States designated on October or fe February 6th, 1788. 1 plus 7 + 8 + 8 is 24.

¶6762 + 4 is 6. So you have New York is also 666. Donald Trump when you remove the vowels from his name is 666. And Donald Trump 11:4 in Genesis says, "Come, let us build the city with a tower that reaches to the sky." Doesn't Donald Trump own Trump powers? I blush up.

¶677I'm the man when it comes to understanding what the scriptures say. Laugh you want. >> No, brother. >> It is what it is. >> You just Hey, you just avoid it.

¶678I have never I have never heard Oh my gosh, bro. All right, I'm gonna let Pyro go. Thank you. All right, go ahead, Pyro. I don't know what the hell you're going to say to that.

¶679>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I can do some numerology, too, right? So, the word God has three letters, right?

¶680Three. And all we know three is spiritually significant number, right? So, I assign each number its letter in position. So, G is 7, O is 15, D is four, and then add them together, right? You get 26.

¶68126 is suspicious because the alphabet has 26 letters, right? So God clearly equals the alphabet, right? But here is where it gets interesting. If you take the average 26 divided by 3, you get 8.666 and 666 is the number of the beast. Therefore, God equals 8.66, which equals which is the decimal point move.

¶682And you might say, well, that's ridiculous. Exactly. That's what they want you to think, right? But I've also noticed God has three letters while fake has four. 3 plus 4 equals 7.

¶683And G has the seventh letter. G O D F A K E= 7 + 15 + 4 + 6 + 1 + 11 + 5 = 49, right? 49 = 7 * 7 and 7 * 7 is obviously 49. So when you put all the ev evidence together, the conclusion is mathematically undeniable. It spells out God is fake.

¶684>> Y both Y both just messed me up. That is totally freaking awesome what you just said because I totally agree 100% that this is undeniable. >> I'm muting real fast because the fact I'm muting both like you cannot say what Pyro just said you agree with. Come on now, brother. I'm going to unmute you real fast.

¶685There's no way you agree with what he just said. >> Yeah. Well, if look duality, okay, if you can process the concept of duality, which is both good and evil, then duality exists because look in Corinthians 15:45 it says Bible. God is fake. That's what the conclusion is.

¶686>> Yeah, the God is fake of this realm. You can say that all day long, but you don't understand >> that. Look, bro, God is Elohim. That is not the spirit of the supreme creator. It is something used of the supreme creator.

¶687Go to Strong's concordance 410 and look up 410 or 430. Either one of them, it's going to tell you that God is using is the alphabet made up. >> Yes. >> Right. And if you add G O D, right, which is 7, 15, and four, that equals 26, which is the same as the alphabet.

¶688If you It's just logically God is made up. Logically, God in in the in the material world, >> using your logic, right? 26. That's the alphabet, right? God, if you add up all the letters, that's 26.

¶689Made up. God is made up. >> Well, of course, because God of Israel is not real. The math says God is fake. And you know, logically, God is God is made up.

¶690>> Pull up. Damn it. 675. I'm just I'm just using your logic again. >> Okay.

¶691Well, I'm going to prove you wrong right here, right now. Look up 6754 of the Strong's concordance is going to tell you what the definition of image is. It means to shade a fan. It's an illusion. >> Everybody time out.

¶692Time out. Time out. Time out, guys. Cuz this is I I'm laughing, but I'm laughing because it's interesting. I want both of you guys to know that I didn't think Pyro was gonna be able to do what you just did.

¶693By the way, I'm actually in awe right now that he just I don't even know what the hell Pyro just said. I mean, I mean, >> it's amazing that you're in awe of what he said and nobody's in awe of what I said. >> No, hold on, hold on. No, no. I I'm literally giving like the credit to like I don't know how you guys both came up with all this math that made sense in a way but doesn't make sense in a way >> because that's the problem with numerology.

¶694You can make it make anything say anything. >> Okay, I get your point. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Now, hold on. Hold on.

¶695Because you just said you can. I'm trying to see if we can get to some honesty here. So, Pyro literally just did what you just did, right? How could I, as the dumb person in this situation, I'm going to be honest, I didn't understand either of you. How can I distinguish who is telling me the truth?

¶696Like, like, cuz Pyro just gave me something that sounded just like what you said. So, >> how can I Does Pyro Does Pyro um practice Christmas? >> I wouldn't care. I just want to know how can I distinguish between what he's saying is true and what you're saying is true. >> Okay.

¶697>> If I gotta if I gotta believe what you're saying first, then that defeats the point I'm talking about as a person that doesn't Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Um Santa Claus in English Datria is 666. Okay.

¶698Santa Claus comes down the chimney through the fire wearing Satan's clothes, black and red. Santa Claus comes from the colostrum. The corpus colostrum. This is where we get the word Santa Claus is from the colostrum because the oil that's produced in the corpus colossum is what drops down. >> All right, bro.

¶699You got like you got like 10 seconds. All right. I I You're not answering me. >> Go ahead. >> No, no, no.

¶700I'm saying I'm trying to give you a chance cuz I don't I'm not trying to be rude to you, but you're not answering me. So, go ahead and answer me, please. >> We ask question again, bro. >> Yeah. Yeah, sure.

¶701Thank you. That's fair. I'm asking like how do I distinguish between what Pyro just said with his math and yours? Don't give me more math. I just need to know.

¶702>> They're they're both accurate. >> Okay. Why? Get >> literally literally dumb it down for me. I'm serious.

¶703Pretend I am like a 5-year-old child and explain this to me. Well, a 5-year-old child would probably be easier to explain it to because I haven't been indoctrinated. >> Sure. But do it. Do it.

¶704Yes, that's fine. I am a 5-year-old child, but explain it to me as a 5-year-old child, please. >> Um, I would say that source is a spirit which moves all things in place. That it has angels that I said earlier, spiritual formed angels in the heavens above. The earth hadn't been created yet.

¶705When he creates the heaven and the earth, he creates bodies. Billions of bodies like ours, which are our empty brains. They're our brains are like computers that haven't been programmed. When we're born into this realm, they're empty. We only know what we're being programmed with.

¶706So everything on this plane of existence, we're being programmed with a lie. As 9:24, Job says, "The earth has been turned over to the hands of the wicked." Now, I only have one question here. >> 30 more seconds. earth has been turned over to the hands of the wicked. Would the wicked be teaching us about the one true God or trying to worship anything other than the one true God or get you to believe that God doesn't exist?

¶707>> I would, if I was an evil person, I would give you as much honest information as I could. Like just real I would give you as much honest information as I could and manipulate it. That is the best way to be evil. >> Exactly. And that's what Satan does.

¶708He does his manipulations through Hollywood. He does it through the music industry. He does it through politics. He does it through >> Pyro. Go ahead.

¶709Your last statement and then we got another person that wants to talk. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. The problem with numerology is you can make it say anything you want to. >> That's all I have to say.

¶710>> Oh, that's fair. >> Pyro, man, that was cool though, man. You know, I I love your position. Stop by my channels, guys. >> What's your channel again, brother?

¶711I'm going to stop by for sure. >> Uh, White Raptor News and I studying for a long time. >> Do you do you Cuz this is what I do, by the way. Do you mind if I watch one of your videos and I do a reaction? >> Oh, I wish you would.

¶712Absolutely. >> Okay, I will. I'm not going to lie. I will. You're not going to >> I look forward to it because I've never had anybody do a reaction video and I've called out a lot of people.

¶713>> All right, White Raptor. Um, if you go to my the go to the channel, I'm going to link a Discord for you and I want you to post your channel in my Discord and then I'm going to take a look. It might not be the next video or not, but I definitely will look at it. Um, and I will do a video on what I think. Okay.

¶714>> All right. Um, Critical's okay. I I don't mind critical, but >> No, no, I'm not going to be I'm not gonna be an No, no, I'm not going to be So, that's why I came in your channel. I subscribed to it. I didn't know you were an atheist, though.

¶715>> I watch that one video. >> Hey, I I I fooled a few people, by the way. Uh, but yeah, I won't I won't do anything disrespectful for sure. But I I will take a look and you'll you'll see a video of yours as on my reaction soon enough, brother. >> All right.

¶716>> All right. Thank you, sir. >> Yes. Thank you. >> All right.

¶717Take care, man. >> You, too, bud. >> All right. All right, we got another person here. I'm gonna mute you real fast, Pyro.

¶718I know you're not going to jump in, but I'm just going to mute. Uh, all right. Hello. I hear typing, so I'm talk. I'm talking to you if you're typing.

¶719>> That's me typing in the column. >> Oh, sorry. Not you. Not you. Not you.

¶720There's another one. Uh, hello. Hello. You are live. I'm going to message you.

¶721Uh, go ahead and hang up, uh, brother, so I know who's here. All right. Hello. I see you. I see a pink thing in the car.

¶722You're on the screen. Are you ready to talk? Hello. Hello. I I see you in a car.

¶723Whoever this is, you're on my last person and I got to go after this. So, unfortunately, if you don't answer me, um, we're going to be ending the stream. So, I'll probably have a quick conversation with Pyro and then that'll be it. Hello. Hello.

¶724One more time. No, I can't hear you. If that's you, No, I can't hear you. No, I can't hear you. Oh, you wait.

¶725Hold on. You might not be able to hear me. I'm going to give you a little time. Let me talk to Pyro. Just jump in if I can hear you.

¶726Um, what do you think about that, Pyro? >> Can you hear me now? >> Oh, wait. Okay. Sorry, Pyro.

¶727Yes. Yes, I hear you now. >> Yeah, I hear you. Okay. The I was uh on earlier talking about my my testimony.

¶728>> Oh, yes. Yes. Go ahead. >> Oh, so it's a it's both a blessing and a curse. I believe because I can uh literally feel um you know how Paul says there was a thorn into my flesh that uh God gave to him, but I don't know what that thorn was.

¶729with with a paw. But um I can feel in like uh while I'm awake, I can feel them stabbing me like in my body. Um >> not not anymore. Are you saying like this is just what happened when you're like does this happen all the time? I'm sorry.

¶730I just want to make sure. >> It's all the time. It's all the time. >> Oh, okay. Have you ever Have you ever spoken to somebody?

¶731>> Oh, yes. I've been to doctors and I'm phys I'm physically okay things. So, >> okay, >> I have I can feel them uh stabbing me in my fingers sometimes. Um but like I said, I know Jesus is real cuz he has been slowly delivering me from certain things. Like I know you think it's just dreams, but I've literally like God has spoken to me in my dreams, told me like stuff to repent of.

¶732Um, and this I would say the deliverance process has is uh slow uh >> because I I used to be um I used to look at and I'm not saying that everybody experiences this cuz I know people are going to say, "Oh, well, I looked at porn and nothing happened to me." >> Okay, >> I already know that I uh I do not think that God handles everybody. uh the same. >> Okay. >> Um so that is just my experience. >> So God's like um like God's like a parent like as a parent I handle my children in different ways.

¶733That's what you're saying. Right. >> Right. >> Okay. >> And I think he has hand uh he he has handled me quite quite harshly.

¶734And I understand because I speak to God all the time. I'm like, I I literally hate you. Um because you put me through this, but I see it as a b I don't know, a blessing and a curse. And I'm like, why are you allowing uh me to go through this? But you know, other people >> when you say that um >> when you're saying you speak to God, do you do you hear do you hear something?

¶735>> Like I said, uh I dream. He has saved me from so many things. Um, >> okay. >> Uh, within my like within my dreams, he has saved saved me from certain situations. >> No, no, no.

¶736I'm not I'm not uh I'm trying to be caring here. Okay. Um >> cuz if you're saying you're going through stuff, um I'm not I'm not someone that I'm I'm not a doctor or anything. >> No, what I'm saying is I I know that the doctors cannot help me. Like I've been to the doctor, >> okay?

¶737>> And like I said, >> I just want to be I know, but I just want to be fair to you, okay? cuz I I I really am a caring person. >> Mhm. >> And I don't know if you're if you're really going through something, I always suggest uh being able to talk to somebody. >> Mhm.

¶738>> And I don't like if you've done that, like I would just continue to talk to somebody, but it's it I believe what you're saying, right? Like I just I don't want to I'm not messing with you here. Like I believe what you're saying. I just want to make sure that you're okay. And >> I'm fine.

¶739>> Okay. I like I just like I just want you to know like I don't um like So are you saying that you you audibly hear somebody? >> No. I said I um God speaks to me through my dreams like he has saved me from certain cir uh situations um by like um showing me through my dreams. Uh he has showed me stuff to repent of um and slowly I've been being delivered.

¶740Um like for example the uh let me give an example. Uh I used to um like I told you earlier, I used to when I was awake, I could literally uh fill them uh throwing water in my face. >> Yeah. >> So that I could not breathe, >> right? >> And um he he delivered me from that.

¶741And I used to um have um dreams dreams of actual demons. You would say they're only dreams, but I was being >> don't don't worry about what I'm saying. Um I I truly believe this regardless. Uh everybody everybody has their own experiences, right? So, when I when I'm bringing up my experience, it it does not mean that your experience is any less real or not real.

¶742Um, the only thing I care about is making sure that you're okay. And >> I'm fine. >> Okay. Um, that's that's all I care about at the moment is making sure you're okay. um if you say um that Jesus has saved you from the things that you're going through then I'm not really combating that.

¶743Right. So >> because I think we can get uh relief in many different things. >> Um so I don't know if you're trying to talk about whether this is like real or not because if it benefited you I was just I was just telling my testimony. >> Yeah. Okay.

¶744So, if if it >> if it benefited you then Okay, that's one subject. Um I didn't know if you are prepared to talk about if it's true or not. And if you're not, that's okay. >> I'm ready. >> Okay.

¶745So, would you have evidence of why it would be true? Do I have evidence, physical evidence? >> Uh, how how could you prove to me that it was real? Let me say it that way. Like right now, if I needed to it like say I want to believe you, which is true, like believe you in the sense of like >> how would I prove something that's supernatural?

¶746>> I'm asking you. I'm ask I'm asking you. I'm asking you. >> He cannot prove spir the spirit realm. >> Okay.

¶747So, you're being honest, which I appreciate. You're saying you can't prove the spirit realm. Um, >> I mean Jesus Jesus I would say Jesus Christ has revealed the spirit realm to me. >> Yeah. Well, so why hasn't Jesus revealed it to me?

¶748How about that? >> I have I do not know. >> Oh, that's that's fair. You're being honest. You're being honest.

¶749>> I didn't even want I didn't even want him to reveal it to me. I'm like, yeah, you just like randomly choose somebody. You could have chose somebody else because I have a friend. She actually can um see demons and angels. And I I was like, I would never want to see that ever in my life.

¶750I don't know why anybody would want to see that. But she >> um >> Okay. >> But I do not know. I guess he just randomly picked people because >> Okay. Did you grow up Did you grow up in a Christian community or anything?

¶751>> I grew up a Christian. I was always skeptical. I was an atheist and always asking. So I I never believed it until I encountered it. Then I was like, "Oh yeah, the That's when I started to believe.

¶752But I was always trying to um uh ask questions similar to you. But this was way back in 2000. >> Okay. And then you experience what you experienced. Um can I ask you this?

¶753Uh do you think if you were born and grew up in another religion, you would have geared uh you would have act or not acted. I'm so sorry. Uh you would have um thought that that was true. Uh maybe but I also have seen um I see many testimonies of Muslims come to Jesus Christ through visions. I see Jews coming to Jesus Christ through visions.

¶754I see Hindus come to Jesus Christ through visions. >> I've seen um I've seen people go from Christianity to being Muslim. What do you think about that? >> It's not through Oh, they're being deceived by Satan cuz Islam is demonic. I'm just going to put it blank.

¶755>> No, no, no. I get what you uh believe, but you were using um people converting to Christianity as proof. >> No, but >> would it would it not be proof? Opposite >> I would dream I would say dreams and visions. uh people will convert I believe to uh Islam because once you try to and I think it's a very bad idea to try to um to um what is it poke holes in Christianity then um you leave them with nothing so you leave a a vacuum um because people want something so they uh uh convert to Islam because now they're like Well, I can't answer these questions, so I'm going to convert to Islam.

¶756And I think it's a very bad idea. >> Do you think um do you think people convert to Christianity when they don't have an answer? Because I've heard that before. >> Oh, no. Um like I said, I've seen many testimony of Muslims actually having visions.

¶757>> Oh, okay. I I think I think you didn't hear me. That's fine. Um I am saying I have heard of atheists convert to Christianity. I've heard other people convert to Christianity, but usually it's because they can't find an answer where uh from their other beliefs.

¶758Does that make sense what I'm asking now? >> Oh, it just converted to Christianity. >> Yeah. >> Oh, >> and it's usually because they don't have an answer. >> Oh, I converted based off my I converted based off my experience.

¶759>> Okay, that's fair. You're saying you had an experience? Um, I really I really can't talk against your experience. Um, if you had an experience, I truly do believe you. Uh, it just sucks for me that you aren't able to share with me u the actual experience.

¶760Do you understand why it kind of sucks for me? >> Okay, you do. That's great. I'm glad you can understand that cuz I don't want you to think I don't believe you. I just think it sucks that God would grant you something that you couldn't share with me.

¶761So, can you see my kind of frustration? Right. >> Mhm. >> That's okay. You're being honest and I appreciate that.

¶762>> So, like what what are we what are we supposed to do with that, right? Cuz I'm saying >> hard because I didn't I actually didn't choose this. I I get I get it. But I'm saying like uh why why do you think God would do that? Because >> are you sure you want to experience what I'm like like I told you?

¶763Um >> uh if you you might not have heard earlier, but I'm pretty crazy that I just want to know the truth. So if I had to go through something to know God is real, I think I would accept it. >> Okay. Um, so I'm kind of jealous in a way. Let me be honest with you.

¶764You're you're >> being afflicted by demons. >> I get it. I get it. But I I am saying that I am saying that you seem to say that you have had proof of God and found God. I am wondering why somebody like me that asks for that proof all the time, literally daily, uh, I don't get anything.

¶765Why do you think that is? >> You hear me? >> Yeah, I heard you. I don't know >> like I and I and I'm being honest with you, >> right? But say say I ask daily, right?

¶766I ask daily and I get nothing. You you don't ask at all and you get it. Why do you think that's the case? Um, I don't >> Yeah, something to think about, right? I just wanted to see if I just want to give you something to think about.

¶767That's all. I I'm not really asking for an exact answer. >> Would you still want it if um uh if God is punishing you? >> That's what sucks for me, but I accept it. I even say that in my asking.

¶768It's like, God, it sucks that every time you show yourself, it has to be mean, but I would I I I I would accept that, too, >> right? And I You're laughing because you get what I'm saying, right? Like I think it sucks that every time God shows himself, it has to be some type of move, but I would accept that, right? Uh so it's just like, no, I really truly am seeking. I haven't saw anything.

¶769I've asked even when I I don't know if you know this. I really did used to believe and uh I used to beg for these same things when I believed and I never saw anything. And uh but that's that's about it. There's going to be one more question from uh Pyro here and then you will be our last call. So I wanted to make sure you got in because you've been trying to talk for a minute.

¶770>> They would just say you keep seeking. Okay. So, one one second. I'm gonna let Pyro ask you a question and then that'll be it. Okay.

¶771>> All right. Go ahead, Pyro. >> Hey, um I was just uh wondering about the nature of like how do you know that you yourself aren't being tricked by some demonic demon? >> As far as what? >> Your beliefs.

¶772>> Oh, my beliefs. >> Yeah. >> Oh. Um, how do I know I'm trying to um because I believe Jesus Christ reve um fulfilled prophecy. >> Sure.

¶773But that doesn't give me a method because a demon could have just told you that and it could be a lie. I believe Jesus fulfilled prophecy. >> Right. But a demon could have told you that, right? >> No.

¶774>> Okay. So, you have to tell me how do you know that? >> Oh, I'm 100% sure of my belief. So, um because Jesus uh is the only way. And he said in the last day many antichrist shall arise.

¶775And um uh it's very much exhibited in um I guess in I would say let me how do I say it's nice um in the many different uh religions that have popped up and then the just the deconstruction movement as far as um uh falling away and and just um like it says they shall heap up teachers and um to turn you away from the truth and um unto fables and um >> I'm still a little confused cuz you made the claim that like you know when people convert to um Islam they're being tricked by Satan. Did you say that or did I just mis here? >> Oh yes. So >> because Muhammad even Oh, why I don't believe in Islam? >> No, no, no, no.

¶776If it's possible that somebody can be 100% certain in their belief like Islam, right, and they're tricked by a demon like Satan, >> you know, you can you have to say that's also possible for yourself. Your your belief or your your certainty doesn't make it more true. >> No. >> Okay, go ahead. um Muhammad and his hadiths uh because I study Islam too uh said he thought he was possessed by a demon.

¶777So all these religions that have popped up after Jesus Christ um are all antichrist. Mormonism and um what dang Islam. >> Definitely not Mormonism. They're they're latter day uh >> they're not. >> Yeah.

¶778They're not Christian. I'm sorry. >> Well, I mean that's just your opinion, right? >> They're not. >> Well, that's a new True Scotsman fallacy.

¶779You're basically saying like they're not really a Christian, >> but your opinion on what makes a Christian a Christian is relevant. >> Joseph Smith was a false prophet like Muhammad. Well, again, a a a demon could have tricked you. Are you more powerful than a demon? >> No.

¶780>> So, you could be wrong by you could be like >> I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong. >> I'm not saying you are. I'm saying you could be. >> Oh, nope.

¶781>> So, how do you how do you know? >> How do I know? Cuz I know 100% that I'm not wrong. >> But does your certainty and your belief make it more true? >> No, I'm certain.

¶782>> All right. All right. All right. Hold on. Because what we're saying, no, you're you're you're right.

¶783We're going to go round and round. But I want you to realize something, which is what Pyro's point is. >> Uh if we tell you we are 100% right, what do you say? >> Oh, what did you say? >> Yeah, like we're we're saying you'reund we're not really saying that, but if we said we know 100% that you're wrong, what would you require of us?

¶784Oh, >> evidence, right? >> I I guess I'm just giving my testimony. >> Yeah. Yeah. But like No, but I'm saying like if we're telling you No, no, no.

¶785You're like Yeah. But saying we're you like say me and him are telling you like, "Hey, you're 100% wrong and I know it for sure." What would your next question be? >> Oh, >> I get to prove it. >> Yeah. There you go.

¶786There you go. So, all all we're saying is, can you prove it? >> And I'm going to be honest, I can't prove it. But Jesus Christ has provided me the certainty and he has provided me uh deliverance >> and I can just go based off of what Jesus did for me. >> Okay.

¶787>> I'll let I'll let Pyro answer and like I'll let Pyro answer. I'm okay with if you're Are you Hold on. Are you saying that you know for sure you can't prove what you believe is true? Right. I said I cannot prove supernatural.

¶788>> Okay. All right. Go ahead, Pyro. That's fine. >> Yeah.

¶789To me, I just don't think uh it's um intellectually honest to claim that a Muslim is wrong because they're being tricked by a demon. >> I'm not. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

¶790Let let him finish real fast. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It's not intellectually honest to say that a Muslim is being tricked by a demon like Satan, but it's impossible for you to also have been tricked by a demon.

¶791>> Yeah. Oh, nope. Um, I I've looked at very many Muslim testimonies of them seeing Jesus. I even saw one testimony of a Muslim. She was crying out to Allah and she uh said the demon came into her room and Jesus Christ came and saved her.

¶792>> Okay. You're those anecdotal, but I'm talking about the epistem the epist uh epistemic access, right? You're you're saying that some people have a belief that is created by the the the the trick of a demon like Satan, right? >> And but but somehow you're exempt from that. You you have you just can't be tricked by a demon.

¶793Even though you admit you're not more powerful than a demon, but somehow you just can't be tricked. >> To me, that's special pleading. You're you're giving yourself an exemption, but saying that everybody else is is tricked. That's not honest. >> Well, do you guys he said whoever Whoever denies that Jesus is the son of God is Antichrist, >> right?

¶794And that could be a trick by a demon. >> Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ is Antichrist. >> And that could be a trick by a demon. >> Nope. >> How do you know?

¶795>> Because I know God has given me that certainty. >> So I could say my God has given me my certainty that you're wrong. Does that mean I'm right? >> No. >> Why not?

¶796I think you're making yourself up now. >> Oh, you're making yourself I think you just got it. You just got it. You just got it. >> No, because you're just making stuff up.

¶797>> Yeah, I think you're making stuff up, too. >> Yeah, I'm not making stuff. >> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

¶798Hold on. No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on, sweetie. Hold on.

¶799Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I don't mean to call you sweetie. I apologize.

¶800Uh, hold on. Um because what he's saying makes sense to me is that he's saying that what he believes is what he believes. You are saying what you believe is what you believe. I am sitting here in between like wait who do I believe >> right? And but you guys are both giving me the same evidence.

¶801He is saying I know this is true because so and so you are saying >> I don't even have experience. He just said what if his no I I can say I could say uh my god right he he revealed to me >> just saying what if >> hold on hold on my god has revealed to me that you are wrong >> and you're being cricked by a demon >> yep no >> how do you how do you >> All right hold on uh I think you'll get it better this way if if um Pyro was a Muslim if No Pyro was a Muslim >> he would say what he's saying, right? >> So, and a Muslim would believe it just as much as you. So, how can I know who is right? How can me I'm in between right now.

¶802I just want to know the truth. And I got Pyro the Muslim telling me his uh his story is true. I got you telling me, what should I call you, by the way? What's your name? So, I apologize.

¶803>> Latia. >> Thea. Athea. >> Letia. Latia, beautiful.

¶804Okay. Uh, so if if you tell me that Christ is the truth, how can I know who is telling me the truth? >> Oh, how can you? >> Yeah, me. I'm I don't know right now, but I got a Muslim telling me that Muhammad is telling me the truth, and I got you telling me that Christ is the truth.

¶805How do I How do I know? Well, I would point you to the Bible and to the verse that says that Jesus Christ that he's the way, the truth, and the life and that he is the only way and that he anyone that denies he's the son of God is Antichrist. Then I would also point you to Muhammad sources where he said he thought he was demon possessed >> and that >> okay I like the second part. I don't like the first part as much because Muhammad would tell me the same thing you said that it came from God. Uh I don't know.

¶806No. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like cuz like even in the Quran there's verses that says stuff like indeed whoever denies Allah his angels his books his messengers in the last day has clearly gone far astray. So I could just say that about you and we're we're uh even in terms of um >> whoever denies they deny the Bible.

¶807So what are you talking about? >> I'm No, I'm saying that's from that's from the Quran. >> Oh the Quran is demonic. >> Again how do you know that? I can say the Bible is demonic.

¶808The Quran is demonic. >> But that's not evidence. That's an assertion. >> I'm sorry. The Quran is demonic.

¶809>> Okay. So if you don't want to get into like a honest discussion, >> I mean like >> but do you see how you know I I >> I promise that I get what I promise that I get what you're saying and that I I truly believe that you believe this. But I just want you to see if you can be honest in the part of if there is a Muslim saying literally the same thing you're saying, they can't they can say they're just as right as you. Do you do you not get that part? >> Oh, yes.

¶810>> Oh. Oh, you do get it. Okay. That's all. That's all that's going on right now is there's a critique going on.

¶811And uh as and we're saying we are two people trying to find out the truth. Yet you're telling me the same thing that a Muslim would tell me, that a Mormon would tell me. But you're saying you're right. But all of you guys are providing the same amount of evidence. Amount, sorry, not amount, amount of evidence.

¶812Do you see where somebody like me would get stuck? Like you guys really are all telling me the same thing and I'm sitting there in the middle of you guys trying to figure it out. >> I could point you to J D. Why he uh >> Oh. Oh.

¶813Oh, really? Oh, >> I mean Jay Dy is a preceper. He doesn't actually argue for his >> No, I'm talking about I'm talking about when he debates Mormonism. >> Okay. >> But yeah, >> he has debates on Mormonism.

¶814He has >> I don't think he he's honest. >> Okay. Um, God logic. >> Oh, I did a lot on him. >> God logic.

¶815>> Regardless of any of that, I think you still have an epistemic problem. I don't have an epistemic problem. >> Yes. The problem is you you claim that you are infallible to being tricked by a demon. >> I didn't say that and I said Jesus Christ is the only way.

¶816>> But that could be a trick by a demon. >> No, it's not. >> So you're So you're claiming that you're you're impervious to any demonic um tricks. >> Yeah. So how you're just a fallible human I pray to Jesus to >> All right.

¶817So if I if I pray for >> Cool. If I pray to Jesus tonight, what happens? >> I don't know what he'll do with you. >> So do but do you see my point or our point? Like I like I I'm so glad you're being honest.

¶818Like you're being honest until you you don't want to be. So, like I I just asked you a question. You just answered it honestly and I didn't expect any other answer that could have been honest. You don't know. And that's I I >> do know I know Jesus.

¶819>> Oh, wait. Wait. What? You just >> I know that 100%. >> Yeah.

¶820Yeah. Yeah. But you said you didn't know if Jesus would answer me, right? That's an honest question. >> I don't know if he would answer you.

¶821>> Right. So, do you get do you get the questions now? >> So, okay. So, are you saying there is no way possible that you could tell us how to find Jesus? How about that?

¶822>> I I don't I don't know how you can find Jesus. I like I pray. >> No, no. Stop her fast. Stop her fast because you just answered enough for me.

¶823So, my next question is I say how I find Jesus. >> Yeah. No, no, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Because my next question is uh is it only determined by God?

¶824Is that what you're saying? Like no matter what I >> Okay. >> Because I said I didn't want I did not want >> Cool. Hold on. Hold on.

¶825Hold on. Don't go >> up a me. >> Yeah. Yeah. Don't go too far.

¶826>> And I didn't even want I didn't even want >> Okay. Okay. Okay. But don't go too far. >> And that's why I was saying >> Okay.

¶827Hold on. So because you're you're like I said, I really appreciate the honesty. So no matter what me and Pyro do, it's up to God, right? >> It's up to God. But I >> Okay.

¶828>> I keep seeking. >> Yeah. Yeah. We We are seeking. We will keep seeking.

¶829Now, now I'm not going to I'm not going to Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Please, please, please. Uh, I'm not going to speak for Pyro, but what I will say is I will keep seeking, but I hope you understand why I start to not believe when I am truly seeking and God never answers.

¶830Can you appreciate that? >> Yes. >> Okay, I I'll let Pyro say his thing and then that'll be end. Okay. I just want to say that I'm like when I'm I probably shouldn't be doing that, but when I'm at work, I'm worshiping.

¶831When I'm at uh the gym, I'm worshiping. When I'm like >> um like >> I know. I get it. I get it. After >> 24 hours, I'm probably worshiping.

¶832Not hours, but >> No, no, no. I get I get it after your first couple. Um so, as long as you under No, I I'm just like, man, God, you you need all this. >> Okay. But as long as you understand what I'm saying and the fact that you're not telling me I'm not seeking God, I think that's okay.

¶833I'm speaking for myself and then I'll let Pyro speak for himself and then that'll I do appreciate you calling. Okay. And then I'll let and that'll be the end. >> Nice talking to you. >> I hope so.

¶834And you can always call back. >> Go ahead, Pyro. >> Yeah, same. Um, I mean, I I feel like I already said my piece, but again, I don't think it's honest for anybody to say that, you know, oh, look, all these other people, they can be tricked by demons, but I can't. >> Oh, >> are you, you know, are you also not a person like they are?

¶835>> Yeah, but Jesus Christ already gave >> No, no, there there is no Yes. >> He already gave He already gave us a standard that says if a religion uh like Islam come up and they say he's not the son of God, then you're Sorry, ma'am. Sorry. >> Excuse me, ma'am. There's no There's no yes but.

¶836>> There is yes but. >> There's no yes but. You either agree with me or you do not. >> Oh, I don't. >> Okay.

¶837So, >> because Jesus has protected me from >> So, what you're saying again is is is not logically consistent. You're saying all these other people, well, they're susceptible to demonic trickery, but I'm not. >> And I don't see how you can say that. Um Jesus has protected me from any satanic deception. >> All right.

¶838All right. All right. >> That isn't itself a deception. >> Oh, cuz Jesus is the truth. >> All right.

¶839All right. >> Okay. I think I think >> that's watching this in the future will understand exactly what I'm talking about. >> All right. Cool.

¶840And uh just has so many people. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's cool.

¶841and even getting you to just like >> All right, hold on. >> Right along. >> All right. All right. All right.

¶842I'm just gonna like just mute for a second cuz uh we're just going in circles. So that's fine. Um and I glad I'm glad you said what I was about to say it, which is I hope this is why I do these discussions is that I think everyone needs to hear themselves talk. So, uh, please, this will be recorded and it will be on like literally in like 30 minutes or an hour or tomorrow. Please go back and just listen to this conversation.

¶843Okay? And then I want you >> No, hold on, please. And then I want you to call back again. We're going to be live on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Fridays. I will make sure that you come to the front of the line if you really go back and watch this and just listen to my questions, listen to Pyro's questions, listen to your answers, and then just come back like write down your responses.

¶844Don't respond now, please. Like, cuz you you can't respond in the way I hope you can respond uh later on. So, just go back and really listen to this. And I really hope to hear from you again and then I hope like you come back with some notes and then recall this conversation. Okay.

¶845>> Okay. I had a question. Real question. >> Yeah, you can ask a question. Go ahead.

¶846Yeah. You said you said you were willing to um put your life on the line for Jesus. But that's not true because if if you were, you would have stuck with him because Nigerian Christians over there, they're going to be headed and they don't >> I didn't have an I'll be I'll be I'll be honest. I didn't have that opportunity. And I don't like to call it an opportunity, by the way.

¶847I think it's horrible. >> I'm sorry, but you you gave into the slightest. Uh >> No, no, no. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

¶848Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah, I think how do you think? >> All right, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. >> I'm going to mute real fast. Okay, because I think that's unfair and I don't want our conversation to end that way cuz I think you were being honest and me and you can have a conversation and I will be as honest with you.

¶849I will just be honest. I'm not going to say as honest. I will be honest with you with my story. Uh, but I am a person that was literally willing to give up and was about to give up everything that I had. And I was talked down from the ledge.

¶850Okay? Like people people had to keep me from jumping off of the roof to to to find out if God is real. That's how serious I am about it. Now, I wasn't ever in an opportunity to be threatened with my life. And I hate to call that an opportunity, by the way.

¶851I think that's horrible. But let's not let's not tell me what my story is, okay? Because I I have appreciated how honest you have been up to that point. So, please please don't turn into >> I know, but yes, but don't tell don't I know, but don't tell me my story. Okay.

¶852>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, please do what I said and then uh I hope you call back. Mondays are the best because it's open Mondays, but if you call me on Friday, I will talk to you again about this.

¶853But please rewatch this and and come with some notes and me and you will discuss it the next time we speak. I really mean what I say. Please call me back and then we'll go through this again. I just think people need to hear themselves and I go back and watch I go back and watch this too. So, I'm going to hear myself as well and then let's reconvene and then we'll go from there.

¶854Okay? And I appreciate your calls. Make sure you take care of yourself and I'll see you the next time we talk. Okay? >> And uh thank thank you Pyro for calling in.

¶855I appreciate you guys. I'm going to end this chat. Uh thank you guys. You guys take care of each other. Be safe.

¶856Thank you. >> You have a good night. >> Thank you. Take it easy. Bye.

¶857>> You want to >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm making this up. So, yeah. Yeah.

¶858All right, guys. Peace. All right. That not going to lie, that was that might have been the most interesting uh 3 hours. Four hours.

¶859I can't believe you guys kept me for 4 hours. Holy Good job. Good job. I've never been on here for 4 hours. That's That means you guys had me just freaking excited.

¶860All right, so there's two people I want to call back. Um, crap. I don't know if that I didn't ask the the his name. I don't know if that was God damn it. I I I feel do I feel like I'm being so disrespectful right now because I know who I'm talking about.

¶861and he called in and I like the guy. God dang it. You know what? You know what I'm talking about. You called.

¶862We were We were talking. I want to say it's Kindred. If you're not Kindred, let me know, but god dang it. I I apologize, by the way. Ah, that makes me mad that I forgot.

¶863But there was three callers and I definitely appreciate the calls. These are the conver these are the kind of conversations that I want and they're going to get heated, guys. I just want everybody to realize that. I know it says never flame, never tilt, but don't take it the way it sounds because I'm not flaming anybody and I'm not tilting. I'm just passionate about what's going on, right?

¶864And it and it upsets me a little bit when I watched the video we watched with the Joe Schmidt guy and and it felt like he was joking. Like this stuff is so serious. I don't think there's room to joke. It's literally like if we're talking about a comet is about to hit the earth. I don't want to hear jokes, right?

¶865Like there's a comet that's about to come hit the earth. I don't why are we joking? So that's that's if you guys want to know why I got so serious on that. It's just like no no no. This is not a joke.

¶866If you saw God, be serious. Please don't do little stupid little silly jokes. Don't like look make little silly comments because I think you're an It's going to be real. If you're saying you found God and you're making jokes about it, you're an Sorry. And like I said, my my channel's not big enough for that Joe Smith guy to come talk to me, but yeah, I'm sorry if you're joking and talking about finding God.

¶867I call you an Sorry, not sorry. That's an move. Uh there's a lot of there's a lot of consequences with saying and finding out that God's real. So if you laugh and joke about it, you're literally laughing and joking about people going to burn in hell. So it's not funny to me.

¶868So if anybody knows that guy and he's willing to talk to me, I would talk to him at any moment in time. So, just saying, and we could even talk off stream, by the way. Like, I'm so serious about this. This isn't about getting views. This isn't about getting subscribers.

¶869If If he wanted to talk to me off stream, I would never post it. That's how serious I am about this It has nothing to do with views. I don't think what he did was right. And I'll say that. And like I said, I'll talk to him off stream.

¶870So if anybody knows Mr. Joe Schmidt or whatever, have him hit me up. And like I said, we don't have to talk on stream at all. Like it. Like we don't got that.

¶871Like they say, screw it. I'll talk to him off stream. All right, guys. I really appreciate all the calls. I really appreciate everybody chiming in.

¶872Um, this is this was really one of our most interactive streams. I appreciate it. Uh, this does mean I will not have a video for you guys tomorrow. This is going to be rude with you guys. Like there's no video.

¶873There's not I don't have time. I got to go spend some time with my wife and try to have a good time with her. She's probably mad at me because I took so long. So, I got spend some time. Uh, I'll try to get a video out uh for Thursday.

¶874And I think this video is good enough for everybody to go rewatch, by the way. So, just just go rewatch this video and I'll try to get something for you guys Thursday. But I got to go to work tomorrow, too. So, I'm going to go try to hang out with my wife and eat. I haven't eaten yet.

¶875So, all right, guys. I'm sitting here rambling cuz I'm tired. As always, I'm Jay. Don't forget to throw away your feelings, open your minds, and question your beliefs. Thank you so much, guys.

¶876Good night. Peace.