¶1[music] with the world and need to know. We'll [music] boldly speak the gospel's call. Wherever [singing] we may go, we have a story [music] ancient and true. Of love that conquers fear [music] and a light that shines forever bright for everyone to [music] hear. Share the gospel far and [singing] wide.
¶2Let his love [music] be our guide. From the mountains to the sea, spread the truth that sets [music] us free. In every heart, in every land, let the [music] world come to understand [singing] the grace that flows from Calvary. Share the gospel far and wide. In the cities, [music] in the countryside, wherever [singing] people roam, there's a [music] hope that's found in Jesus Christ that can lead them safely [singing] home.
¶3Share the gospel far [music] and wide. Let his love be our guide. From the [music] mountains to the sea, spread the truth that sets us [music] free. In every heart, in every land. Let the world come to understand [music] the grace that flows from Calvary.
¶4Share the gospel far [music] and wide. [music] >> [music] [music] >> Hello and welcome to today's discussion. in today's discussion. Sorry for that. Hi, welcome to tonight's uh discussion.
¶5Tonight we discuss another important subject regarding the conversion of u a guy called Joe on YouTube. He has converted recently from being agnostic to now being Catholic. To help me discuss this uh discussion, this important subject at hand, I invite brother Gift Chubangu. I also invite brother Josh Lenon. Brothers, welcome to the show tonight.
¶6>> Thank you so much, brother. Yeah, it is another important discussion we have to discuss. Brother Chubangu, don't you think it's an important discussion? >> Yeah, it is really an important discussion uh that we get to discuss tonight. Uh I think it will be to the benefit of many.
¶7Yeah, we are always glad to be together and discuss such things. >> Yeah. But before we go any further, brother Josh, could you please pray for us? Then we can jump into our discussion. >> Yeah, >> sure.
¶8>> Go for it. >> Father, as we come before you this evening to discuss the things of your word, we ask that you would give us guidance and let your Holy Spirit lead us into all truth as you have promised that you would do. We ask for your help in searching the scriptures and help us and keep us faithful to your word. We pray this in Jesus name. Amen.
¶9>> Amen. Amen bro. Thank you. So we discuss an issue that we have seen on our social media trending especially on uh YouTube regarding the conversion of uh this guy who's been an agnostic for a long time right and now he says he has actually become a Catholic and this guy is excited you know everybody on YouTube is talking about him and uh this guy is trying to convince masses of people so that they can actually um go after Catholicism. Let's hear what he had to say in his uh first video soon after he converted to Catholicism.
¶10Let's see what he said. God exists. Christ is Lord. And he established big news. God exists.
¶11Christ is Lord and he established the Catholic Church. I'm not kidding. I just converted to Catholicism. Well, actually, Joe, you're just a revert, so that's technically misleading. I dude, conversion is a change of heart and mind, and that just happened.
¶12For those of you who don't know me, shame on you. I'm Joe Schmidt. I'm a PhD student in philosophy at Princeton University and I've been an agnostic and public critic of theism and Catholicism for quite some time. But earlier this year, that all changed. So today I'm just going to share my personal journey.
¶13Uh if you want my hours long comprehensive case for Catholicism, stay tuned. That's coming very soon. Yeah, you just heard in the introduction of um his uh testimony. You know what really shocked me as I listened to uh his um you know testimony right at the beginning of his testimony is the fact that he said that Christ is Lord. Christ established the Catholic Church.
¶14Did you hear him say that Josh? Yes, bro. I heard him. >> So, um, according to the Bible, which yourself and myself do read, is it true that the Lord Jesus started the Catholic Church? >> Well, you don't really see the Catholic Church in the Bible.
¶15>> Yeah. >> So, no, it it can't be true. >> Yeah. Brother Chibangu, did Christ start the Catholic Church? According to Joe, Joe's claim, you know, he's just claimed that Christ started the Catholic Church.
¶16What do you say? >> We can't hear you. Brother Chubamu, if you are talking, we can't hear you. Okay. You seem to have issues with your connection.
¶17Yeah. So, it is really deceptive to hear from this guy's mouth that Christ started the Catholic Church. But we see uh not such a thing in scripture because the Lord Jesus speaking to Peter in um uh Matthew, we can go to Matthew, Matthew and um chapter 16 because this is one of the misused passages in scripture that the Catholics, you know, point to to claim that actually Jesus started the Catholic church. So they tell people to go to Matthew chapter 16. This is a time you know here below when the Lord Jesus Christ was [snorts] moving with his disciples and um he ended up asking Peter asking his disciples a question.
¶18Who do people say that the son of man is? And uh this is what the Lord Jesus said in Matthew in Matthew in chapter 16. And so we see in the context there was the Lord Jesus Christ talking about you know the Catholic church. So we have in verse 13 when Jesus came into the region of Cesaria Philippi he asked his disciples saying who do men say that I the son of man am who do people say that I am right so they said some say John the Baptist some Elijah and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets he said to them but who do you say that I am yes you've talked about what other people say about me but what about yourselves Do you really know who I am? Simon Peter, who would always say things, you know, first he jumps in and he says this.
¶19Simon Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God." Then Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven, and I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock, Petros, on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of her shall not prevail against it. and I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed um in heaven. So according to the words of the Lord Jesus starting from verse 17 through to um verse 19 was the Lord Jesus saying that Peter would start the Catholic church. Brother Josh >> uh short answer is no. But uh what uh in my experience what many Catholics would like to say is that especially in verse 18 where the the Lord Jesus said you are Peter and upon this rock I I'll build my church.
¶20they would like to say that um the apostle Peter is actually the first pope and that authority was given to him by the lord Jesus himself. [clears throat] Uh unfortunately for them it's actually a a misunderstanding of of this uh scripture a misinterpretation actually and they would say that this is the point when the Lord Jesus started the Catholic church. He determined the popes and as we know or he determined the beginning of the popes and as we know the popes are the head of the Catholic church. So they would like to say that this is the beginning of the Catholic Church. And uh in verse 18 it says, "I say to you that you are Peter and upon this rock I'll build my church and the gates of of Hades will not overpower it." uh they would like to say that the rock is referring to Peter but in reality if you look at uh at these Greek words Peter in Greek is pet which means like a a stone a small stone >> but we see that it's a rock which is which the Lord Jesus is referring to and the The only thing the only other uh antecedent that we find in this passage is the Lord Jesus Christ.
¶21So actually in this passage the Lord Jesus was referring to himself. He says on this rock >> meaning himself I will build my church. He's saying you are Peter but not upon you. you won't you you will not uh build my church right there's Peter Petros a small stone and a rock the lord Jesus Christ the rock which uh which he is building the church upon. So uh Catholics would like to claim this passage as the beginning of their church >> or their their religion.
¶22But in actual fact, they they can't rightfully claim that. >> Yeah. So, um when when the Lord Jesus Christ um said to uh Peter that I also say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall prevail shall not prevail against it. Brother Gibbangu, [snorts] would would you say the Lord Jesus was referring to the profession that um Peter just made in verse 17 where he said blessed uh I mean where he he in verse actually uh 16 where he says you are the Christ, you are the Christ, the son of the living God referring to himself as Joshua said that the rock actually is referring to the Lord Jesus. What are your thoughts?
¶23>> Yeah, that is that is actually the the the reality that we see in this uh passage. Yeah, we we see a lot of course even our English translations are able to bring out that distinction which our brother was helping us in terms of the the Greek words used there. >> Yeah. [snorts] Yeah, we are thankful that we are thankful to the Lord that our brother Josh has done some [laughter] coin Greek, right? You've done some >> Yeah, it's a privilege.
¶24We are grateful, bro. And so I think uh our Catholic friends have to be careful. >> Yeah. Our Catholic friends have to be careful because then if they are not careful they you know end up you know creating this false teaching within their organization um their religion of uh trying to put Peter there as their first pope. Right?
¶25Because just just because the Lord >> said to Peter that you know blessed are you Simon Bar Jonah for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you and he went on to say that on this rock when he said on this rock just because Peter's name means a stone the Catholic church you know Petro means a stone a small stone right they say no look he Jesus is saying that Peter is is is the first pope. Peter is the one who who who who um you know started the the the the Catholic church because Jesus told him to do so. But we see that the church that the Lord Jesus Christ was talking about here, this is the universal body of himself comprising of um the saved individuals coming from um different parts of the world, different languages, tribes and uh these are people have been washed uh whose sins have been washed by the precious blood um of the savior Jesus Christ, their sins have been washed, have been you know [clears throat] you know thrown in the sea of forgiveness and these are the ones who are part of the body of Christ. This is an invisible body. We can't see it but we know that this body comprises of uh people who have been uh saved by God's grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
¶26And we see the fulfillment of this of course um in um Acts and chapter 10 when Cornelius had that vision and God sent Peter to preach the gospel for the first time. A Jew in the New Testament was preaching the gospel to Gentiles who now ended up believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. But before that, Peter had preached the same Peter had actually preached a sermon, a gospel message in Acts chapter 2. And about 3,000 souls believed and were added to the church, which is the universal body um of our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, as we see in um this passage in Matthew chapter 16. So to claim that Jesus started the Catholic Church is to ignore the context of uh this chapter hence promoting such a heretical mindset of uh trying to you know lie or you know for Jesus.
¶27Jesus never said he was going to start up the Catholic church. He was going to start up actually his uh invisible body which is the universal body, the universal church or his own church. Um yeah, so we we after this guy, you know, said whatever he said in his video, I did listen to it. Josh, I believe you also listened to his video and brother Gift, right? >> Yes.
¶28What is it that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We we did listen to his video. It is >> okay. >> Quite disturbing.
¶29>> Yeah. >> I don't Are you Are you able to hear me, brothers? >> Yeah. Very good. Very good to get you.
¶30>> Yeah. So yeah, the video is quite disturbing and at the first look you would think actually that maybe someone could have been paid to be able to say such things as we were able to hear in the video but uh they were able to be said anyway by him and we are able to hear the words that he has said to say uh God is there he has established the Catholic church but according to the passage we've read, we've seen that actually that passage have has been actually misunderstood. And uh looking at it over and over again, you can get to see that because even the the Holy Spirit was actually even care uh in writing that because later we see Peter rebuking the Lord Jesus Christ uh that he should not die. He should not go to the cross to die. Uh in verse number 22 and uh 23 Jesus says get behind me Satan.
¶31He says calling Peter get behind me Satan. You are an offense to me uh for you are not for you are not mindful of the things of God but the things of men. You are you are not setting your mind on things of God but on the things of men. So to me it would be uh very foolish to think that God would be able to build his church upon a a frail man uh who can who is actually called by the Lord Jesus Christ as an agent of Satan because of what he has actually said rebuking the Lord Jesus Christ to go to to the cross. So from the onset of the passage that is that that they get to distort.
¶32We see that we are told to say that Peter is a failable man that gets to fail that gets to do things that are not right. And over in the gospel account we get to see that and God would not build his church upon upon a failable man. Even though the Bible would say that the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, that is not referring to them being the main purpose of why it is it is it is built, but actually referring to what God entrusted to them, the teaching they were entrusted to and what they would proclaim that would come from the Lord Jesus Christ. So in that sense, then the the the foundation of the church uh was built Christ being the cornerstone according to Ephesians 2. So it's not necessarily making man to be the focus because man is a failable being.
¶33If God who is infallible would build his church upon failable man a stone able Peter then that that would not be able to paint a good picture of God actually. So uh that doesn't refer to to God establishing popes. So establishing Peter as the first pope and then the lines follow uh follow on. So that that is away from the scripture and uh his statement uh again that we is is really is confusing because it looks like a person is moving from not believing that God is there to accepting that God is there and going into a long um a wrong teaching and doctrine which is actually an issue. So God has not established or confirmed the Catholic Church.
¶34she ever start in the Catholic church. >> Thank you bro for that. So we we are saying that the um theme of our discussion or or rather the question guiding our discussion is this one here. Why protestants must pity you know George's decision whatever his name is his surname I can't pronounce it well I don't know yeah why protestants must actually pitch this guy who made such a decision to um follow the Catholic church and its its heretical teachings um we saw that some uh fellow protestants uh Christians like ourselves who believe in salvation by God's grace through faith in our savior the Lord Jesus Christ like Ryan and um our brother Patrick um you know they did a wonderful response you know um to this guy's claims and so would love to hear what they said um a bit about their thoughts regarding the conversion of uh this guy to Catholicism. Let's just hear what they said.
¶35>> If you're not aware, this guy Joe has been an atheist for a really long time, but he was recently convinced of Catholic miracle claims, so he decided to convert to Catholicism. Needgod.net actually disagreed and said that Joe is going from the frying pan into the fire. Paul speaks so clearly about this that he actually says if someone is to preach a different gospel, a gospel where it's Jesus plus like obedience, which is what Catholic Church teaches, in order to gain eternal life, let them be anathema. Remember the greatest opposition the apostles had were from the religious people, not from the atheists. Their gospel is absolutely anathemaized.
¶36And so the way we discern anything is taking it back to the Bible. Like you always say, check it with the Bible. going to the scripture to see if it's true. And it's nothing that we saw this this young kid did. We don't see Noah going to the scripture to see if it's true.
¶37They go to Holy Mother Rome. Welcome everyone. I'm joined today by Patrick from the Bible in context. Good to have you here, Patrick. >> Yeah, praise the Lord, Ryan.
¶38I'm I'm glad to be here. Now what's happened over the past number of days is there's been a atheist or agnostic philosopher who is well known in certain circles who's recently converted to Catholicism. And so there's been a lot of people particularly Catholics celebrating and saying this is so amazing. Not only just Catholics but even Protestants have been saying this is such great news. One such example is Red Pen Logic who says, "There'll be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous persons who need no repentance.
¶39Praise the Lord, God is on the move." In regards to, I just converted to Catholicism. We also saw inspiring philosophy. He reshared it saying, "Glory to God. Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and Evangelicals are all Christians." Now, is this something that we should celebrate? Someone going to Catholicism, not just, hey, I've become a Christian.
¶40I got my trust in Jesus now, specifically Catholicism. And even if if you have a look at his video, he put out a almost 30 minute video talking about his testimony, his conversion testimony. If we have a quick have a quick look at the description, God exists, Christ is Lord, embrace Rome. So, this is not just like, hey, I've got my trust in Jesus. In fact, if you go watch this entire conversation, he doesn't mention once Jesus died on the cross for my sins.
¶41Nothing about, "Hey, look, I was realizing I should be in hell for all my sins, but then put my trust in Jesus." So, I want to hear from you, Patrick. What are your thoughts on this recent development? Yeah, I think what we're seeing is a typical thing that Rome typically does is they they find somebody who's a high-profile person and then they bring them into the limelight and then try to use their influence and their popularity prior to becoming Catholic to try to bring more people into thinking, oh, everybody's becoming Catholic and it's this huge popular type situation, you know, and and Ryan, I I actually was talking to Tim from Red Pen Logic and was able to send him a DM to try to connect and maybe we'll get to chat a little bit more later, but I Think what's happened is guys like Tim and and many others is they're knowledgeable of a lot of things except Roman Catholicism. And this was the same way when I went to seminary. We didn't have much topic discussion on Roman Catholicism.
¶42You learn about Mormonism, 7th Day Adventists, Islam, and church history and councils, but they didn't really talk about the errors of Roman Catholicism. So, a lot of these individuals online are just ignorant to what Roman Catholicism actually teaches. And so they think that they are just Christians like we are. But when we actually dive into the teachings of Roman Catholicism, we discover that they are contrary to scripture. They have a >> Yeah, brother Josh.
¶43Um you you watched the the video that um you know uh [clears throat] Ryan and Patrick um just played recently um and we also did recently on our uh discussion here. So what really shocked you as far as this guy's testimony is concerned? Yeah, I like what uh uh Ryan the point that he brought out is throughout all of the 30 minutes of his testimony, not once did he mention the death or the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. >> Not once. He didn't mention that he was a sinner, that he was in need of salvation.
¶44But what he did mention I found it interesting was that he you know he was an atheist. So he used to be Catholic. He grew up in a Catholic household. Then he became atheist and over time the the reasons why he became atheist he said was starting to break down. And then he started investigating these uh these so-called miracles of the Catholic Church like >> Marian apparitions, you know, appearances of of Mary or or miracles of of of these saints that the Catholic Church has called saints and how they they are seemingly unexplicable, you know, and These miracles showed him that uh Catholicism is is true.
¶45And um you know he's saying he he he he's now a Christian. But I think the Christian in the Christianity in his mind and and the Christianity of the Bible is very different. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because you cannot be a Christian without understanding the gospel, which clearly he does not.
¶46>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I was as well actually shocked. I I I had to listen to his so-called testimony. Like Ryan and Patrick said, it's true.
¶47He never even mentioned Christ dying for his sins once. He never even talked about the Lord's sacrificial death for his own sins, right? He never talked about, you know, the atoning sacrifice, which is Christ. He never talked about, you know, the shed blood of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. Nothing.
¶48He never talked about his burial and resurrection. Nothing. Yet this guy just at the beginning of his video, he said, "Christ is Lord. He founded the Catholic Church. How can Christ be Lord if I don't believe that he died for my sins?
¶49Which we know the Catholic Church does not teach that one can be saved by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. As we know from the catechism article 14:30, the Catholic Church teaches that by the consecration, the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is brought about under the consecrated species of bread and wine, Christ himself living. Did you hear that? The Catholic Church teaches another gospel that >> a person can actually be saved by you know taking a part in a mass you know mass activity and um maybe in fact it's not even maybe here it says when somebody takes the bread and the wine which they believe once it is prayed for by the priest It miraculously becomes you know the actual body and the actual blood of our savior the lord Jesus Christ was Jesus endorsing cannibalism when he said that whoever eats and drinks of uh my blood shall have eternal life. We talked about that for those who may be watching us.
¶50If you want to understand further about what Jesus meant regarding the subject of uh eating his flesh and blood and drinking his blood. You can check uh the video on our YouTube channel. It's there. We already discussed about it. And in there we concluded that actually that was a metaphor.
¶51It was like um an idiom, right? Jesus was speaking spiritually regarding how one can attain can receive eternal life. It is by faith in him that he died for our sins. It is not really what the Catholic Church teaches. And um I think for me this is why I I h believe that we should be pitting this guy because what has just happened to him is that he has deceived himself further.
¶52He was deceived first of all as an agnostic or an atheist. But now he decides to leave the nonsense, the foolishness of not believing in God. And now he says, "I'm a Cath." Right? So he thinks now that he's Catholic. H that means he's a Christian.
¶53He's thinking he's going to heaven. Right? just because he has been embraced by so many people and like Ryan and and and Patrick said it is sad that even some who claim to be Christians are actually seemingly supporting these guys um you know so-called conversion they even happy about it you know uping him they are happy and they just because he he he's no longer an an atheist. Then they think I think it's Saturn who has played well the deception in people's minds. So they can um kind of think and embrace this guy as a Christian just because he's no longer an atheist.
¶54>> But you know Josh, is it enough for one to just stop being an atheist? And if if somebody just decides today to say, "Oh, I've spent my years, right, not believing that there's um a higher power, God, somewhere. So I no longer believe that. So I'm now believing in God." Is that enough for one to become a Christian? >> No.
¶55Unfortunately, it's not. according to the scriptures 1 Corinthians chapter 15 3 and 4 uh that is the gospel Paul clearly lays out this is the gospel and by this you are saved and that gospel is Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures he was buried and he rose again on the third day. That's the gospel. >> So, yeah, of course, the God is real and it's it's great to believe that that God exists, but >> unfortunately, that's not enough. And, you know, there's a point that uh Ryan and uh and his friend brought up in in their video which I I really liked about this.
¶56They were saying that Often times someone who is religious is often harder to reach for the Lord than someone who is an atheist. Someone who who basically has no uh standard religion. someone who has a religion like Catholicism or or Islam or any of these other religions, they are harder to reach for the Lord than someone who doesn't believe anything. And I think the reason for that is because they have something that they are trusting in. For this for this uh this man's case, he has uh the Catholic Church which he is trusting in.
¶57If in the the description of his video, it was written embrace Rome. So it's obvious that he is he is wanting to to trust in in Rome for him to be saved, >> you know, and he's trusting in his own religion to save him rather than in the Lord Jesus Christ. So often times the devil can use religion to and even you know belief in God. You can use belief in God but change some sort of aspect of the gospel to steer people away from the truth. They think they have the truth like so many Catholics but it's so sad that they don't.
¶58>> Yeah. What has come to mind is the the issue we discussed some time back um John 6. You know here people come up to the Lord Jesus and they ask him what should we do um that we may work the works of God. It's it's it's more like what is happening to this guy's you know um what what it's more like what is just happening in this guy's life where he's been an atheist for a long time but now he realizes oh I need to serve God right what should I do what is the first step I should take unfortunately Satan has still played you know with his mind and has sold him deception that he had to start with the the Catholic Church instead of starting with Jesus. Here the Lord Jesus was asked >> uh you know what should we do that we may work the works of God.
¶59What did he say? He didn't say go to Rome. He didn't say start investigating Roman Catholic church. He didn't say you need to get all the books about Catholicism, get to you know understand you know these you know books that they have written. No, the Lord Jesus actually said Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work.
¶60This is the work of God that you believe in him whom he sent." Did we hear that? This is the work of God. So in case our friend um in case our friend Joe you might come across this please we are pleading with you the stance you have taken yes it is your personal decision and no one should judge you for what whatever decision you've made But as those who have experienced God's love, saving power in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are here pating you, our friend. We are pating you because what you have done to yourself is more harm. You've done actually more harm to your life.
¶61You have harmed yourself. You have done more harm to yourself. I know in your mind you are thinking you are now a Christian, you are going to heaven. Please, we are pleading with you. If you ever come across this video, you need to turn to 1 Corinthians chapter 15 1 through to 4 or 5 if you want.
¶62Know what the gospel is which can save you. Roman Catholicism cannot save you our friend. It is Jesus who saves. So if you are like you've done you've started with Catholicism instead of Jesus who has promised us eternal life the one who died for your sins and rose again the one who died never more to die and if you've made your decision to for Roman Catholicism like we are saying here you have made a very big wrong choice is you need to reconsider your decision however possible because you have actually done more harm to yourself to your life. If you die you you can you can spend your energy, you can spend your resources, you can spend your time making all these long videos that you have started doing.
¶63They can't save you because scripture tells us that we are not saved by what we do. We are actually saved by God's grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8 and 9 tells us that for by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is not because you have joined Roman Catholicism, right? It is the gift of God.
¶64For God so loved the world, he gave us his only begotten son, Jesus, >> so that whosoever believes in him should never perish but have everlasting life. Verse 9 says, "Not of works lest anyone should boast. But if if you consider what the Catholic Church teaches, it teaches a works based salvation." Like here is proof. They are teaching you to be part of the mass, eating the bread, drinking the wine, claiming to be the actual, you know, um, body and blood of Christ Jesus, which scripture teaches nowhere. And so you are in trouble.
¶65You have moved from one trouble to another trouble because you are in the trouble where scripture describes as you are in a um state of being foolish as Psalm 14 tells us a fool has said in his heart there is no God and now you discover oh there's a higher power so let me join Catholicism and the Catholicism you are joining you have joined already is doing is going to damage you. It is going to damn you to hell. We pray that you come to gener salvation. You come to put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and rest. Um rely on what he has done for you because he finished the work.
¶66On the cross he said it is finished. So we pray for you that you come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as as as as your savior. Yeah. So again let me just try to ask you brethren what do you want to say again regarding what we are discussing right now? anything that you want to say please?
¶67Yeah, I remember one of the reasons why uh this man Joe converted to Catholicism he gave was because there was a voice coming in his head which said you can be a saint. You can be a saint. And it just kept coming over and over in his head you can be a saint. And so it sort of attracted him to Catholicism. Oh, you know, thinking ah wow, you know, if I join Catholicism, if I work for them, I can become a saint, you know.
¶68So he really his reason for joining Catholicism was based on on his pride saying >> I want to go higher in life. [laughter] I want to become a saint. Therefore, I'm going to join Catholicism. You know, whereas the gospel requires humility. The true gospel requires humility.
¶69Saying, Lord, I am a sinner. I am a sinner and I am so wretched that I deserve to go to hell. >> Yeah. But Lord, you you are the one who saved me and through your work alone I am able to go to heaven. >> The gospel requires humility on the point of the person being saved, you know.
¶70So I I was just I was shocked by by that one of his reasons for joining Catholicism has nothing to do with the gospel. Absolutely nothing. >> So brother brother gift how can one become a saint biblical speaking? >> Yeah. for for one to become a saint.
¶71Uh was uh a saint according to the word of God that is just referring to one that is set apart uh one that has been sanctified that has been made holy uh that is that is the whole meaning behind the word being a saint. So actually even looking at the word it's not about you making yourself holy or becoming holy. It's actually you being made holy or set apart. >> Something that is set apart must be set apart by the one that can set apart. So it's only Christ that can be able to to make hold someone.
¶72And how can he be able to do that? Uh well uh Romans 5:1 says that uh being justified by faith we have peace with God. So God is the one that can justify. Now what does justifying mean? Justify means being declared righteous.
¶73So in other words, you are being made holy. Is is as simple as uh just as if you had never sinned or just as if you had never sinned or you ever see you ever sin again after that. So it's God considering you or looking at you as if you had never sinned or you never ever sin again declaring you righteous. So by sooing that means God makes you righteous that is sanctifies you sets you apart makes you a saint. And so we have Paul actually it's interesting uh we have Paul talking in his letters uh saying to to the saints at this church uh to the saints at Ephesus uh to those at Corinth he calls those at Corinth in chapter one that they are saints and when you look at Corinth actually they had a lot of issues one would take um would take you know he would take the the stepmother and uh take that stepmother to be someone to to sleep with.
¶74But still those people Paul would call them saints. Set apart. Why? Because they are setting apart has nothing to do with them. It has something uh to do with God.
¶75Uh they had all those things that are sinful. They will do those things that are sinful. It says in chapter one that uh this the sexual immoral the adulterers the drunkard shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And then he says this such were some of you but you are washed you are sanctified uh by the Lord Jesus Christ. So it's the Lord Jesus Christ his blood is death that can sanctify that can make you uh holy that can make you a saint.
¶76It's not about you living uh with a deceptive mind of saying I must live like this. Uh make myself to appear good then at the end of the day I should be canonized. Uh I should be canonized in the books of of the Catholic and declared a saint and then people should begin to pray to me. So that is that is just about human motive uh of of of just about our selfish desires bring about uh ourselves so about ourself our selfish desires our pride to be recognized to be seen as some people that actually doing something uh for God but that cannot stand before God it cannot be able to stand before God that's why it's for him for him I think it's like like you brother enough said it's all about his desires from from the beginning he says uh uh God is there Christ is Lord embrace him then later we hear the voice coming in the mind you can be a saint you can be a saint it's all about God is there yes you people should embrace Rome because God is there uh because I think God is there you should embrace Rome after embracing Rome it's all about him promoting Rome And at the end of it being a saint dignified and prayed to by others but that is not the way someone can become a saint according to the scripture. It is it is far from scripture.
¶77Amen. Amen. You know, I'm um actually amazed at the truthfulness of scripture because this sounds like what Paul describes in uh Galatians, right? He says, "But even if we >> or an angel from heaven >> preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed, another man." [snorts] As we have said before, so now I say it again. If anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
¶78So this guy is saying he heard a voice, right? We don't know who was speaking to him, right? And and and if truly it was God speaking to him, he could have been led to the gospel. He could have been led at least to somebody or the Bible itself where he could even read about Christ and and and and that is the beginning of everything. Right?
¶79So the fact that the voices that he was listening to that he was hearing never pointed him to Christ it shows clearly that it was Satan who was speaking to him. Definitely because if it was God speaking to him, >> he would have led him to Christ. We have examples like you know in in in Acts chapter 10. Here is a clear passage. Somebody was seeking to know God in truth.
¶80He was a good person. He had given his arms a devout man who feared God. you know, naturally his household also well-managed, you know, with godly morals, but unfortunately they were never saved. Right? This man could pray always, but he had no salvation.
¶81The Lord himself gave specific instructions to Cornelius. The angel comes and what did he say? So he said to him, "Your prayers and your arms have come up for a memorial before God. Now send for Simon whose surname is Peter." Did you hear that? The Lord told Cornelius to send people to go bring Peter so that he would come over and preach the gospel to him.
¶82So if truly God was the one speaking to this guy, he would have directed him to maybe a YouTube channel like we are in a time where we have you know Christian resource on YouTube and other platforms and so or maybe the Bible itself, right? He could have been reading about the suffering uh Christ and then uh believe in him as savior. He would have been talking about oh I'm a sinner. Christ died for my sins. But unfortunately that never came >> out of um Joe's mouth.
¶83So we conclude here that indeed um Joe is deceived. Joe needs prayers. He needs our prayers and uh Joe still needs to hear the true gospel of our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. And just a warning to those who may be watching us, those of you if you are a Christian and you are already deceived by Joe's um conversion to Catholicism and you might be celebrating or he's no longer an atheist, whatever. Remember there is a warning in Colossians chapter 2 and verse 8 and this warning was to believers and scripture says beware beware of people who claim to be philosophers like himself right beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty dit according to the tradition of men.
¶84Catholicism is according to the tradition of men. It's not according to the Bible. You hear that? and according according to the basic principles of the world and not according to Christ. This is not according to Christ Joe.
¶85It is not according to Christ what you have done. It is according to man. But we are praying for you that you would reconsider your decision and focus on Christ, his work on the cross for your sins. And so we are not surprised some of us to have a person like Joe um of course now claiming to be a Christian because people have mistaken Catholicism for being um part of what is called Christianity. But Catholicism is far away from what is called biblical Christianity.
¶86It is full of man's tradition as you know this verse has summarized everything. Beware lest anyone cheat you and Joe stop cheating people. Please stop cheating people. Stop lying to people. The things you are claiming to have seen they are not real.
¶87Jesus is real. Jesus died for our sins and rose again. So if true Jesus is Lord, he never started the Catholic Church. He instead started his universal church. And so you need to be telling people the truth.
¶88You need to search for the truth. You need to find out what is true and so that you can tell people the truth. And so as we think of uh maybe coming to the close of our interaction, I just wanted to also play this other clip so that you sense can hear also um what Ryan said in his in one of his shots. Yeah. So he he posted this I think today because there's another guy a Catholic guy called Noah from what from his channel on YouTube is um what what Jesus is not or whatever forgotten >> Jesus and what not.
¶89>> Yes >> Jesus and what not. [laughter] All right. So they said listen to what Ryan said here and and he actually attacked Ryan. He was upset with Ryan's response and so he had to >> Why didn't I celebrate Joe Schmidt's conversion from being an agnostic to being a Catholic? >> Pretty much the entire internet was very excited about his conversion except for needgod.net who says that people need to be discerning about celebrating his conversion because he's going into bad theology in the Catholic Church.
¶90I was upset about this comment. What I had simply said is that we should be discerning about this because if he believes official Catholic teaching, he won't be putting his trust in Christ alone to save. But as the Catholic catechism says in 2068, he'll be putting his trust in also his obedience to commandments to save him. And that's not a gospel that can save according to the book of Galatians. Just because someone doesn't deny the existence of God anymore doesn't mean he's right with God.
¶91And in fact, within days of his supposed conversion to Catholicism, he's gone on to big podcasts and said, "God has disproven Protestantism." >> Now, Protestantism is simply the belief that we go to heaven through faith alone in Christ alone and that the Bible is our standard. We check everything with. And he's saying that's all false. What has he gone to then? He hasn't gone to biblical Christianity.
¶92And even a few days after that, he's now said that the easiest and best way to get to Jesus is through Mary. and a relationship with our blessed mother is the safest, easiest, shortest, and most perfect way of approaching Jesus. >> So what Joe has gone to is not biblical Christianity. And so I think we should keep him in our prayers, but I think Christians, we need to be discerning. Truth is important.
¶93And just because someone names the name of Christ doesn't mean that they're in the faith. Let's go and check with people what they're trusting in to get to heaven and point them not to Mary but to Jesus Christ. Brother Josh, what are your thoughts regarding what you just said? >> Yeah. Uh people would like to to celebrate what's happening with with Joe but in reality they are doing it without knowledge because many people you know even this guy he's against what we call protestantism which is basically in essence you know, faith alone, scripture alone.
¶94Um, he's against that. But many Protestants would say, "Yeah, you know, it's it's good that he's come to Catholicism." But he's coming to Catholicism and he's just going to attack you and attack the the true faith, the true gospel. He mentioned that Mary is the the safest and the truest way to Jesus. Hebrews chapter 4 verse 16. Bro, please read that.
¶95Please pull up that verse if you can. >> Sure, bro. >> Yeah. It's It's so terrible. that he would go to such a dangerous territory where he would even say that you know the safest and truest way to reach God is um through Mary.
¶96Wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. You said Hebrews >> Hebrews chapter 4 verse 16. Hebrews 4:16 >> or even even 14- 16 >> 14- 16.
¶97All right. >> Seeing then that we have the great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the son of God, let us hold fast our conception. For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses. but was in all points tempted as we are yet without sin. So was talking about the Lord Jesus Christ.
¶98>> And because of him and his sacrifice for us, he says in verse 16, let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need. Who needs Mary? Who needs man? Why why should we go? Why should we go to her when we can go boldly straight to the throne of the Lord Jesus Christ as ourselves >> true Christians?
¶99Why should we bypass through through Mary? It doesn't make sense. >> It doesn't make sense. Mary, I believe, has been used so much. The name of Mary has been used so much by the devil to mislead people.
¶100>> Yeah. >> People. >> That's true. That's true. I always I always tell people who go to Catholic church that if at all in heaven the people have gone to heaven Christians there like Mary and others if at all they are able to know what happens here below they are pitting people going to the Catholic church like Mary herself >> she is pitting she must be pitting people going to the Catholic church because they have given out a position which herself never even assumed upon herself.
¶101Right. >> Yes. >> They have given her titles which herself never even said. >> It's terrible. Right.
¶102>> So it it is really it is really sad. >> And uh we need to point people to Christ and the Bible not to these traditions found in the Roman Catholic Church. >> Yeah. Brother, do you have any? Yeah, go for it, bro.
¶103>> Oh, I was going to say there are these things called which they call Marian aspirations which are uh appearances of Mary or like a statue of Mary which appears to be moving. Other times it appears to be crying and such. And the these things sometimes pull people towards the Catholic Church. They see look look it's a miracle from God. Mary is calling us.
¶104But uh >> I I believe that that's actually a demon who is playing the part of Mary to mislead people away from the truth which is Yeah. Is quite terrible. >> It's it's so sad. It's terrible, bro. >> Yeah.
¶105And and that is why we can all celebrate this. >> Yeah. that we could [music] bring. But by the blood of Christ alone, our souls [music] were ransom free. All of grace, [music] all of Christ, all our hope is found in him.
¶106Not our hands, [music] not our [singing] deeds, but the cross where life begins. [music] We will boast in nothing else. Only Jesus crucified. [music] All of grace, all of Christ now and ever. He is mine.
¶107[music] Indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ is mine. The Lord Jesus Christ is yours. if truly you have come to genuine um salvation faith in him because you can deceive yourself that you're a Christian going to church praying attending mass helping the poor like many people think and believe that actually they can go to heaven by uh you know doing good works it's terrible. Yeah. So, brother GIF, do you have any last thoughts that you'd like to say um before we end this?
¶108And then I'll I'll be here I'll be staying here for some minutes after this one ends to just chat with strangers about the gospel. If you brothers want to stay awake, fine. I can see Josh might be tired already. Yeah. So, we we can do some gospel interaction with strangers.
¶109I I am finding it's really a good thing and and Oh yeah. So I I just discovered that the issues we've been discussing over asking for forgiveness, this is not an African thing. >> It is a big thing in people's minds. And it has saddened me really. >> Yeah.
¶110>> Uh just one thing I think a warning to each of them. uh Joe himself and also some of those others who are celebrating and who are happy sending what he's doing and the things that he's saying and all those who are following him. So the position that he has actually taken it's a body position as we have actually talked about here the scripture offers one way of salvation there's one high priest there's one author of eternal salvation there's one person who can save there's one way to go is Jesus and uh believing in him is what can save nothing else so maybe just to read uh I think just to read one verse as a warning maybe you can pray for us what uh uh on the scripture there so that it will help concerning those that would want to hold to what Joe is saying and those that would want to hold to Roman Catholicism, those that would want to hold to philosophy and traditions and all those things uh that we are discussing about owing still to the fact that there's one way to be saved. So just just one thing uh we can pull up I think second Peter chapter 2. >> Yeah.
¶111uh just one verse from there. Second Peter chapter 2. Yeah, I think it's number 19. But I'll read from verse 18. So verse 18 says, "For when they speak, for when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they are they through the loot through the l of the flesh through the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
¶112While they promised them liberty, they themselves are slaves to slaves of corruption. >> For by whom a person overcome. For by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. So anyone who would hold to ideas of man, anyone who would hold to Roman Catholicism, they are slaves of those. So you are not a slave of course, you are a slave of those ideas, you are a slave of those philosophies.
¶113But for you to be saved, there's one way that can save you. that can free you from that from that slavery or following men that are available. You see what it actually says that uh they promise them while they promise them liberty they themselves are slaves of corruption. We can talk about the things that the Catholic so-called fathers do, the Catholic nuns do, sleeping with each other, going to drink alcohol, all those things. So they they actually slaves of corruption and they are trying to indicate that they are good.
¶114They can do some good works to God, pay something to God. Meanwhile, their lives are far from that. And same also is for those others embracing the same Catholicism. Same also would be to you if you would embrace those ideas. you'd fall into the same uh same path of following corruption thinking that you you actually following the shortest way to reach to reach Jesus through Mary which is wrong actually you are just taking the the shortest way to go to to hell >> because you die soon through through all those problems that would come in because of following after sin sin does has a consequence >> just the consequence and the suffering that would come from God in the in hell and the lake of fire eventually later.
¶115But also the consequence in this life you can be able to die early because of sin uh that you would just follow by yourself and that would actually take you earlier to hell and the lake of fire. Before that time, before that time that you would die, it would be better for you to consider that you need to be free from human thoughts, human traditions and to embrace the Lord Jesus Christ. Same also for Job. He must you must recognize that you need to be free from the deception from philosophy that that is that that just brings about confusing ideas that are opposed to God and contrary to to the word of God and come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ by faith. So that is my appeal.
¶116There's just one way. Uh my plea to each of you is that you you choose to recognize you are sinners that you can't make yourself good. It's only Christ that can make you good >> and choose to put your faith in him. If not, you continue uh being people that will follow corruption and that will be in bondage to things that are opposed to God and later find yourself in the lake of fire because our sin demands consequence. Uh it demands to be paid for, demands punishment.
¶117God must punish us for our sin if not paid for and the only person that can save is the Lord Jesus Christ. So come to him, believe in him in his death, burial, and resurrection, and you'll be saved. He'll save you. All those that that believe in him, he can save them. Those that call on him in faith, they can be saved.
¶118Says Romans chapter 10. So all you need is to believe in him, you shall never perish. That is God's promise to each of you. >> Amen. Amen.
¶119Amen. Brother Josh, do you have anything to say? Conclusion? >> Yeah. You know, I can just say to anybody who may be listening, >> yeah, >> do not put your trust into any of these organizations or man-made traditions or institutions such as Rome or the the Roman Catholic Church or any church for that matter whether it be, you know, Baptist, CNML, whatever.
¶120These institutions cannot save you. >> They cannot give you true lasting peace. They can only give you a a false sense of security, a false sense of hope. They actually they can deceive you very much. So don't put your trust in anything except for the Lord Jesus Christ and his word.
¶121Those are the only things which you can have full confidence in to to save you. The Lord Jesus Christ can save you and his word can lead and guide you in all things. Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen.
¶122Brothers, it has been yet another, you know, wonderful time together, [snorts] you know, discussing matters of salvation much more centered around the deception of uh Joe uh who made a decision to actually uh become a Catholic and now he's claiming to be a you know, somebody who has been changed, converted. Yeah. And so he thinks he's a Christian. But we've seen from the scriptures Joe is still deceived. And so we pray that he comes to know the Lord Jesus Christ in truth and uh that he can realize that he's a sinner.
¶123Only Jesus can save him and set him free. Thank you for showing up, Brother Joe and uh Brother Chibbangu. It's always good to have this time together to discuss the scriptures and uh it will be nice to have another one in the Lord's will so that we can continue to make content and spread the truth um so people can actually know the truth. If you're watching us, you have any questions, you can send your questions to the number being um displayed on the screen. 0972205544.
¶124You can send your question and we can always create time to answer your questions if at all you have. If you want to chat with us, you can use that number and we can stay connected one to another. Thank you brothers for showing up and um we thank the Lord for what has gone by. >> It was a pleasure, bro. Sorry, you're you're saying something.
¶125Did you say something, bro? >> Oh, I was saying it's a pleasure to once again speak about these important things. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.
¶126Was a great thank for sure. We we do thank the Lord for that. We have a story [music and singing] ancient and true. [music] With the world before [music] us waiting still and hearts that [singing] need to know, we'll boldly speak the [music] gospel's call. Wherever we [singing] may go, we have a story ancient and true.
¶127[music] Of love that conquers fear and a light that shines forever bright [music] for everyone to hear. Share the gospel far and [music and singing] wide. Let his love be our guide. From the mountains [singing and music] to the sea, spread the truth that sets us free. In every heart, in [music] every land, let the world come to understand [music] the grace that flows [singing] from Calvary.
¶128Share the gospel far and wide. In the cities and the countryside, [music] wherever [singing] people roam, there's a [music] hope that's found in Jesus Christ that can lead them [singing] safely home. Share the [music] gospel far and wide. Let his love be our guide. From the [music and singing] mountains to the sea, spread the truth that sets us free in every heart, [music] in every land.
¶129Let the world come to understand [music] the grace that flows from Calvary. Share the gospel far and wide. [music]